Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Jason Marc Campbell, as we explore the transformative power of selling as an act of love. Prepare to have your perspective on sales and spirituality completely revolutionized!

In our daily lives, so much revolves around the concept of selling, which at its core, is a simple energetic exchange. However, our beliefs surrounding money and wealth can often create barriers. If you find yourself grappling with money-related obstacles and selling challenges, then this interview is tailor-made for you.

The separation between sales and spirituality

Jason Marc Campbell delves into the often misunderstood intersection of sales and spirituality. He brings up a thought-provoking perspective on why the separation between the two might not be as obvious as we think.

Jason acknowledged the prevalent negative examples associated with sales: the abusers, manipulators, and scammers. It’s easy to point fingers at these instances and paint all sales with the same brush. However, Jason urged us not to overlook the countless instances of beautiful sales that occur daily, ones that seamlessly facilitate valuable exchanges without causing emotional upheaval.

The transformative power of selling when selling with love

The heart of Jason’s argument lies in recognizing that sales, when aligned with a mission or purpose, can be a force for good. Drawing parallels to the dissemination of religious teachings, Jason highlighted how religions have historically utilized salesmanship to spread their message and elevate consciousness.

Moreover, Jason challenged the notion that money is inherently disconnected from spirituality. He emphasizes that money, while often maligned, is essential for society’s functioning. It’s the lubricant that greases the wheels of progress, enabling individuals and organizations to enact positive change.

The crux of the matter is understanding that the energy exchange in sales can be done gracefully and powerfully. Whether you’re selling a product, service, or spiritual guidance, there’s potential for transformative impact when approached with integrity and purpose.

So, what does this mean for those in the business of spirituality or life-changing services? It means embracing the idea that sales can be a conduit for positive change. By reframing our perspective on sales and money, we can remove barriers that hinder people from accessing the help they need.

Transcript of the interview

Jason Marc Campell 0:00

I've noticed that people that have good hearts good intentions that want to do good in the world, usually find themselves having the biggest struggles when it comes to sale. So you find yourself stuck. You have these guilt, shame, emotions and blockages that come a lot from our, our cultural learnings, our childhood imprints, seeming that All sales are negative. But if I were to tell you that some of the most beautiful activities and the most abundance that we see in the world is the result of a sales process.

Jannecke Øinæs 0:33

Hello, Jason, a warm welcome to the show.

Jason Marc Campell 0:36

Hey, it's good to be back. I don't know if my episodes still there. But I think we had our first episode from like five years ago. And it was a very different show. But it's such a pleasure to see you again.

Jannecke Øinæs 0:45

It's awesome to see you again. We had sort of a coup is coincidental meeting that I felt was not coincidental at all. I remember it was way back when, like five years ago or something like that, where I had interviewed Teal Swan. And I had followed Mindvalley. And I knew so well, who you were, and you contacted me and we're like I'm in Oslo, can we meet I don't like pitching my arm, Jason Campbell wants to meet me and we had a coffee that was just blended like you being in Oslo, all this all of a sudden. Now Jason, Are you our marketing sales strategist and an author of this amazing book selling with love. And you work with amazing thought leaders from all over the world, and also spiritual teachers. And you're so passionate about selling with love. And I know this is deeply rooted in spirituality, actually. Because I see so many people that are spiritually oriented. They want to follow their purpose and do great things in life, they struggle with money. And I was thinking that we can have a deep conversation on how to unblock that and what it's all about this one thing. However, before that, I would love to hear a bit about your journey, because you started out not believing in anything sort of mystical spiritual at all. And now we hear

Jason Marc Campell 2:09

Yeah, look at me on Wisdom From North. And, yeah, it's been quite a journey. And I think, you know, everybody has their own journey to discover spirituality and its importance in life. on their own schedule, I would say, maybe some of us chase it a little more, especially if we feel unaligned, I find the spirituality element is really something that puts you back into the right alignment. But yeah, I mean, growing up in my early 20s, like, it was all about the culture of like, make money, do something, make an impact, build a business, very hustle culture, very, like, you know, lifestyle entrepreneur, like personal growth and mindset and spiritual, like spirituality is already two degrees separated from that I wasn't even open to any of this. And then what happened is, I found myself working for an organization that did a lot of great marketing, but I didn't even know what they were selling. And some of you might have heard of this company called Mindvalley. And I started working for them. And I remember on my, my first day of work, I was like, so I'm not even sure what we sell here. But I just know you guys do amazing marketing, and you show your case studies. But I wasn't even sure what this whole Personal Growth Movement was about. And when I got there, I really got humbled because I started marketing and selling the products that were part of Mindvalley. And in the process, I'd start going through the products and even some of those that I would not necessarily need to consume. But I could see the difference that would make in people's lives when they took energy and invested into wanting to see more of that kind of product change their life. And I use those words deliberately, because for those who have blocks, when it comes to selling particular on the spiritual type of topics is just understanding money being just a stored energy. And when you put that money towards something you care about a change, you want to see, specifically, if you have clients that are investing in spirituality, that means they spiritually want to grow. That's a great exchange to facilitate. And I'm hoping that this actually helps a lot of those of you who have blocks. But nonetheless, I got to discover a lot of these products, which ones helped me which ones didn't got into meditation, then I started enjoying it read a lot about manifestation, law of attraction, understanding how the mindset, the subconscious dictates all of your reality. My God, I had this, I got this moment where I started realizing that I was blind to my, my own ignorance, and I even had arrogance. I had to be humbled. And I think personal growth was one of the first things that I had to go through to reground myself and it was very interesting because even in the moments that I was the most lost after doing some things that I was very shameful about doing so breaking a partner's heart that just didn't deserve it because of my behavior. I really had trouble looking at the men in the mirror and accepting that these were actions that I had done and I had to find self forgiveness. And that's when I really opened up to spirituality. And now it's, it's interesting to think of the man that was in his early 20s That didn't even consider all of this and how fundamentally it is at the pillar of everything that I do. And what I want to promote in the world is how people can find their spiritual base through teachers that have helped me get back on my feet and rebuild myself into someone that I'm proud of. And I got into contact with, you know, authors like Neale Donald Walsch Conversations with God has become like a new way for me to embrace the spiritual side. And then just being open to everything around that spectrum from Course in Miracles. So, yeah, you could say I'm drinking the Kool Aid now.

Jannecke Øinæs 5:45

Yeah. And I mean, you're wildly successful with what you're doing. Now you have this book selling with love, you have the podcast, 2 million subscribers or more. And this has become your passion. And initially, one can think that well, spirituality and money. That's two different things. But I think you disagree.

Jason Marc Campell 6:10

Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay, well, let's, let's, let's call what is kind of obvious and why we would think that separate is I think we have a plenty of examples of where money sales Corporation business are not spiritual. Like we've seen, the abusers, the manipulators, the scammers, all of the negative expressions of sales, we can come up with these examples, I would say pretty quickly. And I think what's a shame is that those, like, let's not deny those do exist. But what holds a lot of people that are doing good in the world, is thinking that all sales are like the bad apples that we've seen, when we actually take the time to separate and filter that out is that there's a ton of beautiful sales that happen all the time. And we don't pay as much attention because they don't cause an emotional charge, when something just happens smoothly. But the majority of things do happen smoothly. And even if you're going to be more specifically selling a product or service that is truly changing people's lives. But you know, when it comes to spirituality, you are, you're doing life saving work for some people. And understanding that when that energy exchange happens, it can be done gracefully, it can be done powerfully in the money exchange, the fact that block exists, holds a lot of people back from getting access to the help that they might be looking for that you might be the one providing. And so I definitely disagree that they're not disconnected, I think when you're doing something from a mission. And you know, if you think about how religions spread, and was able to create different modalities different like, call it doctrines that were trying to elevate consciousness and their level of consciousness as well. Well, most religions, like Christianity had missionaries who were there to advocate and, you know, if we asked, you know, what year are we today? Well, it's 2024 2023. Well, that's, that's based on on the birthday of Jesus. So I think Christianity did a good job there. And Christianity. And you know, as much as we love to bash on religion has done so much of the innovation when it comes to, you know, our calendar, a lot of initiatives that have been put together and trying to raise the principles, raise the values, and all religions have played a part in doing that as well. And that needed to be sold in the process. And churches need to function. And so I want to call that back. Because even if it creates some level of friction, you have to understand that money is at the root of everything that creates a society of functioning human beings, not evil.

Jannecke Øinæs 8:41

Yeah, here. So right out, I am curious about this passion that arose in you because I know my audience, a lot of people in my audience are curious how they could find their purpose. And you just told us that you started working in Mindvalley not really understanding what they were doing. And you got interested in, in in personal growth and spirituality. But how did you sort of find your thing like that calling that was just so yours? Because I know you're so passionate about it. So how did sort of the stars align for you?

Jason Marc Campell 9:19

I have no clue what I'm doing. Ah, let me say that as a statement, okay. I think I've gotten to a point where I've realized, maybe I don't need to know exactly what I'm doing all the time. But I can at least pick what I think I should be doing today. And if that felt good, then maybe I could take a chance and decide, maybe this is something I could do for a week, or a month, or a year or three years. And this is where I'm actually quite big on goal setting. And again, looking at a Jason when he was 20. I even wrote a blog post back in the day I had this website called Home Business boy selling like direct Sales products. But it was kind of a hobby project. But I wrote a blog post on why goal setting is useless because if you set a goal, you're blocked towards anything that could potentially come into your life. And I was I was an anti goal setter. But now today, I'm probably one of the most hardcore goal setters that exist, because I started realizing how powerful it is to just pick something that seems to feel right at whatever level of concreteness that you are right now, you know, if I, if I would wait to be like, I need to know exactly that. I'm here to be the guardian angels for spiritual leaders that need to make it to the list of top 100 most powerful, influential spiritual leaders in the world that are trying to do world good to think that I would have that level of clarity early in the journey is, is probably not based in any reality here. And I get to come to more clarity because I keep repeating the exercise and to use maybe a basic example, but one that we probably all agree on is thinking like, I need to go to the gym with a perfect fitness regimen for an Olympic athletes, and you're just like, wait, maybe I just need to show up in the gym, and move a bit. And that might be the step that I need to start at. So when you asked me that question, like how do you find your purposes and notes? So clearly, I say I have no clue what I'm doing. Because maybe that can change. And maybe, I don't know, maybe something will come to my realization that will change a lot of things. And I and I say that statement, particularly because 2023 For me, was one of those years where I started off with losing a ton of money in the first quarter, and doubting so much about the direction that I had already picked. I mean, I wrote the book selling with love sold 1000s of copies bestseller list. And just as a fun Q. Wisdom from the North was one of the first Platform podcast actually, I think it was the first podcast that I ever shared my thoughts about selling with love. So I have to give credit where credit is due. I don't think you knew that.

Jannecke Øinæs 11:59

No, I did not know that

Jason Marc Campell 12:01

You were the first podcast that I shared. And I And if I'm not mistaken, I called it the three loves of selling back then. And by the time I wrote my book and became the five loves of selling, because I think that might be the perfect example about how I have no clue is I started with a concept and I had three loves. And then I refined it and I changed it and it evolved and eventually became the five loves. But if I would have stuck to that, or if we would have resisted the change, they would have had room to become what it was. But I remember when I came on your podcast, the only goal that I had is I think I should put myself more out there and speak about my own personal thoughts. Like that was the North Star. It was very vague. It wasn't defined, I didn't know what that would look like. But here's where the spiritual magic started kicking in the moment I made those kinds of declaration. At work, I started being asked to be put on interview and host my own show at Mindvalley then they I just launched my own podcasts Mindvalley published that podcast because they were like, Yeah, we we see you're really good at interviewing and all these types of things started aligning, and lo and behold now my goal I've stated earlier about helping spiritual leaders be their guardian angels has been a series of iterations and meet, changing figuring it out, okay, I'm going in that direction. But if it needs to change it can. And you know, I said I started the year with like, a lot of loss and being lost, I don't even I even shut down the majority of my selling with love business. And from what I hear, you've also made a big pivot in your business. And that's okay. And it's almost like if you're so attached to the way the business needs to go, and you need to have that clear goal. It's only by going on that journey, you might realize it's the wrong goal. So pick something, go down the path, see where you end up, and then pick something else. But the more you practice that exercise, you're like going to the gym and then you're like, I'm gonna build my routine over time.

Jannecke Øinæs 13:58

I love that approach. Because I think we can have a lot of pressure when it comes to the pointing the the purpose and like a friend of mine and a colleague Yvette rose, we had a course together the alchemy of your purpose and she's saying you have multiple purposes. And it's actually a deep deep and big topic. However I think your approach is a it's fascinating because you have an element of surrendering there to constantly surrender to what can show up right now and not not put a lot of pressure on this as it is this it because sometimes we have to experience what it's not like trying something out. That didn't fit. No, that didn't fit me. But then I know something more. Like I felt that I didn't live on purpose before now like really my deeper purpose. But there was a purpose before then because I was a musical theater artist, which led me to To be more comfortable in front of camera, it led me to have to study in the US because I wanted to be a musical theater artist on Broadway. I didn't end up being that. But I learned to speak English and be comfortable with English, like I was really horrible in English at school. And if I didn't go to the US, maybe I would have would not have dared to reach out to American teachers like you making this show. So I think that there's not a coincidence that there is a red thread in our lives. And if we sort of just take one step at a time and see where it leads us, we will all of a sudden look back like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs, is that his name? Steve Jobs? Yes, Apple. Like he said that, that you connect the dots, when you look backwards, then you see that there's like a string of dots. We can see it in the moment.

Jason Marc Campell 15:59

It's, you know, it's funny, you mentioned that, because for anybody who's a very big fan of reading biographies, it's almost like, Okay, you read a biography. And we can make a bit of that mistake thinking, Oh, by reading this, I'm given the blueprint on how to be successful. And it's only in hindsight that you can write that story. What isn't a biography, or maybe the 1000 other people that were on the same path that did not make it, and one of them did, but that was their path. And so I'm not saying there's no stories you can be inspired by, and lessons that can be learned. But the thing that any biography is a prescription misses the point of your own personal journey in your own purpose, that's going to be unique to you. And I think that's another thing that, you know, if it's not like, you can only move when you're very sure of your purpose, I think that's one of the mistakes that exists, that it's like, no, it gets revealed as you go on the journey. Another one is, if I can just do what was done here, then I'll find, you know, the success, it's like, while you're gonna have your own journey, and unfortunately, there's a way I guess, using your words, an element of surrendered and I believe, needs to be experienced to be able to go on your journey and realize that you're going to be on your path, it's not going to be the same as anyone else.

Jannecke Øinæs 17:13

Yeah. And part of it is being of service, I believe, which you are, you know, and this is not something you could have figured out figured out in your mind. Like, let's write a book about selling and put love into that. Make that a strategy, you know, and that's where I think spirit is so brilliant, and it's so what you're doing is so aligned with our time, these new thoughts, these new concepts that spirituality, and abundance and money go together. That was a no, no, some years ago, and I have I haven't interviewed but I follow the T Harv acre, The Millionaire Mind, I went to one of the courses, and he actually helped me be more comfortable with sharing my services, because I had so many blocks. So I created my membership. And I didn't know how to sell it, right, because I didn't want to sell to people. And I would love for you to speak a little bit to that to that fear that I used to have. I felt it was shameful. I felt that who am I to do this? I felt what if people judge me like he or she comes and going to sell us something and she's working with spirituality, like I had all these fears. And then I went to his course and I changed my beliefs around it. I saw that, hey, I'm doing something wonderful here. I'm trying to help people. And of course, I need to take care of myself at the same time. And also, when I do get money in I can create more wonderful things. So could you speak to that? Because I know there's so many people out there we'll have this fear.

Jason Marc Campell 18:56

Yeah. I mean, that's this is the exact reason why I wrote my book is I've noticed that people that have good hearts, good intentions that want to do good in the world, usually find themselves having the biggest struggles when it comes to sale. It comes from shame and guilt blockages. It comes from just rationally sabotaging thinking like no, I don't want to be one of these salesy people. And again, coming back to what I said at the beginning, there are plenty of examples of bad sales that have existed that exists still today. And if we think that all sales are that kind of sales, and the moment we go to sell, we think we're being like one of those people that we do not want to identify with. Why would you want to become a bad person and do the activity of bad people that's just not in line with who you are. So you find yourself stuck you have these guilt, shame, emotions and blockages that come a lot from our, our cultural learnings, our childhood imprints and in our own experiences around sales and assuming that all sales are negative, but if I were to tell you that some of the most beautiful Will activities and the most abundance that we see in the world is the result of a sales process. And some of the most beautiful sales that happen. Again, we'll start using different terms when it goes beautifully, like, think of anything you've bought that was so seamless, so fun, and you receive the product. And it was so good, it was even more than you expected. And I'll share a personal story. And you'll notice the joy that comes up then, for those of you who might be watching this, rather than, than listening to this, I'm sitting on a chair right now that I just bought myself for Christmas. And this chair was way too expensive. And it was so like, I had such a process of buying it. But I had an amazing year. And I wanted to get myself this gift. And I sit on this chair all the time. And so I started shopping, I started looking and they had this one, and I'm gonna see if I can show it has a Superman logo, okay? And, and then I realized, oh my God, my books colors are blue, and red. Okay. And the S is not for Superman. It's for sales. And I realized I have a super sales chair. And so I went to the website, there was a customer support that was guiding me answering the questions telling me when it would be delivered, gave me a coupon code got me to like make the decision before Black Friday was done. And then hey, I was pushed and I made the purchase, then I had this whole thing, like waiting for it, then it arrived in a beautiful box. And then I unpacked it, I built it myself because they had all the right tools and instructions. This was this was better than IKEA. Okay, this was the best instructions I've ever seen to assembly with images. And I assembled it, I sat in it. And it was the most amazing chair. And I love it. And it's so fun. And somebody sold that, to me, a company designed a sales process that included a love for the product, a love for the buyers of that product, and a process that ensured that they would get access to that chair. And that's a loving sales process. Look at the joy I had about paying an amount, like way too much for a chair. But I'm filled with joy, so much that just before getting on this interview, I I realized I was doing some deals with my business partner. And to me, one of the best things to do as an exchange is gifting. And so I thought about my business partner Christmas is around the corner. And I just bought him the same kind of chair, but he's a Harry Potter fan. So I bought him a Harry Potter edition of this chair. But I coordinated with his girlfriend, and he's going to be receiving it for Christmas. And now another sale happened with the same company. And I'm gifting it to a friend. And again, that's just an example of wow, look what happens when sales is done. Right? That's not the things that we talk about, we think about and if you think of the way that you sell, how can you design it in an experience that people are so transformed from the entire experience, not just from the moment they buy, but after they buy, what's the experience that you deliver to them, that it's so good that look, I just became a two time buyer of an overpriced chair. And when we think about our products and services and how we sell, it's like when you start doing that you start realizing it's not about trying to maximize the marketing conversion when you start, it's just how can you delight people one at a time and it comes from a sales transaction. And when it comes from a place of joy, it becomes contagious, and you get to share that joy with others. And then your buyers will have that resonance and emotion as well, that you start having a good experience. And if you have the right intentions, I urge you to try to see if you understand the customer enough. And you've built a product that you're you're very confident and you've done enough research and you're willing to take a chance to put it in their hands for them to have a transformation with it and you have the goods, the best of intentions going do it take that leap of faith, you're not going to be 100% guaranteed that whatever sale you make will guarantee a happy client. But if your intent is good, I would say ask for the credit card, make the sale. And I know that it because you have the right heart, you're going to do what's necessary to make the deal a good deal. And you're going to be right by who you sell to. And then you have an opportunity to delight. And I think not a lot of people take that chance because those fears those guilt that insecurity comes in. And I want to be able to give permission to the good hearted people to just go take that leap of faith because for every customer that you're going to acquire, you're going to have an opportunity to delight and if you're doing it with energy of joy, it's usually going to resonate, and then it will build your confidence and then it will be a snowball and I that's really what I want to see people be able to do more. In my book, I actually label out five loves of selling and and you know, we talked about this before. So I won't go too much into details. But I'll I'll share the fact that the first love you have in every sale you make is the love of the impact that you make. So the difference that you make with that sale when you're clear on the difference that you make, like for me, like I work with spiritual authors and I help build their business and I manage their business, their team, their growth, their marketing their sales, and I label this as being the guardian angels for these business owners who are there to lift consciousness on the planet. It need them to focus on raising consciousness and know that they have guardian angels taking care of their business. The impact that when I do this is I get to elevate people that have a powerful voice and to a greater voice for change that we need to see in the world. I am motivated, and that's why I sell to them. Because if I can support them, they can rise and make the change the world needs to see. Being clear on that impact gives you that really powerful, convincing message that you share with people of why you sell because ultimately, people want to know, why are you selling to me, right? The Simon Sinek says start with why this is very similar as well. Be clear on the impact. Because when you are, you will speak from the heart, when you go to sell, you'll be like, the reason I'm selling this to you is because this is the difference I want to see in the world. And you're a part of that mission is very powerful.

Jannecke Øinæs 25:49

Can I jump in here before you take the other ones, because I've heard that most people do not like to be sold something to. Have you heard that as well.


Right. So what do we do, then initially, when people are like, I don't want to be sold to, but still you have that enthusiasm,

Jason Marc Campell 26:12

There's two sides to this. One is, at scale, the most effective way of, of overcoming this block that people don't want to be sold to, is you have to find ways to become attractive to others. Right. And that's, that's a, that's entirely the role of marketing. Like what you're trying to design is a way for you to be attractive enough that people come to you and say, Hey, what are you all about? And so you'll see a lot of advocacy around, you know, you're building your social media, your content, launch a podcast, do a blog, you've heard that advice, we've done this, we're trying to show that we are consistent, we're delivering value in advance. And then we're giving a reason for people to come to us and be attractive. So that when you when somebody comes to you and raises their hand and says, Hey, you sound like you're doing something interesting, I want to do more, then you almost have permission to sell to them. So now it's like, okay, the conversation is now that they've come to you. So hey, since you've come to me, let me explain what's going on. Now. You're not pushing a sale on anybody, you're showing somebody who has shown interest of buying. And that can that can definitely appease the question that you asked people not liking to be sold to. But if they've shown interest, and you almost have permission to show them the process of what does it look like to buy. And I'm playing with those words to say that you're not selling to people, it's true people don't like to be sold to. But the other side of the coin, when you're just getting started, is that you need to actually go out there and you need to be known you need to be you need to have a chance to to be recognized in a noisy world. And no, I'm not telling you to go spam everyone in your contact list and tell them hey, buy my things, buy my things. But if you are genuinely curious and people interested in people, and you have something of value, if you take interest in others consistently around the types of problems that you solve, you can at least open conversations and provide value in advance. But it does demand you to go out and have conversations to go out and reach out to new people to do what is the most dreaded activity of even the most professional salespeople, which is prospecting. And, yeah, I do think that this is a muscle that a lot of people need to practice should practice. And for me, one of the blessings I've had in my late teens as a job which I thought I was dreading, but then realized it was one of the My biggest gifts is I was put in a room to do telephone sales for a real estate company. And that was doing 100 calls a day and reading a script. Now if that doesn't sound like a telemarketer. No, it is a telemarketer, John, but I was told it was reverse prospecting from people that were inquiring about properties. But nonetheless, it got me to go over my own fear of rejection in, you know, on this side of the coin, here's what I will say, is like most people aren't walking around thinking, You know what, today, what I need to go spend on is something to heal myself. People aren't even aware that they're hurting, or that they might need to reconnect with their spirituality. And I think if you know that your problem or that you know that the problem that they have can be solved with the solution you have. I think you owe it to yourself to be making ways to be more attractive for people to reach out to people and make sure that you're known make sure that it's aware. And so to me, yeah, I don't like the fact that it's like, yeah, people don't like to be sold to. Yeah, not necessarily. If it's something that generally changes your life and can solve your problems. I think it'd be at least worth it for people to be made aware. And depending on where you are in the lifecycle. Like sometimes you really need to make people aware, like, could you imagine somebody that's on their way of being morbidly obese, and their health is deteriorating, and it's going to cut their lifespan, like you're somebody who's just deeply, deeply addicted to drugs. And and this is a bit of a personal story, but this is like nobody wants to be sold to Yeah, I had a friend that was you know, addicted to drugs. And we got together a bunch of friends and we had to organic straight an intervention. And that was the greatest gift we ever did to a friend who definitely did not want to be sold to. But when you know what you offer is so much more than what you're asking for your turn. Sometimes you do what is necessary to show that you care. And again, the intent is really, really powerful. You go sell when it's necessary. And at the beginning, you're going to need to do more of it, and you're going to be uncomfortable. But if you can train that muscle, you're going to be liberated from being, you know, passive and anything that is in your life, and you'll be able to take responsibility. And that's the power that comes from mastering the art of sales, if you ask me,

Jannecke Øinæs 30:37

Powerful, thank you for that answer. I interrupted you a bit in your flow when you were speaking about five loves.

Jason Marc Campell 30:45

but that was a very powerful injection, because you're right, and you can see like, I understand two sides of the coin, but I definitely don't want to tell people you should never be pushy, because there are times that you shouldn't be. Right.

Jannecke Øinæs 30:57

All right. So could you just mention the other four loves? Because we're curious. That's why I

Jason Marc Campell 31:04

left it hanging a little bit, then yeah. So yeah, cuz initially, when I came on the show, I had three, three loads. So I'll tell you what the five are. And I'll just list them first. And we can go into a chapter direction you like. So we just went over to for what I think is one of the most important is answering the why which is the impact loving the impact of what you do. The other four is love the client, love the product, love the process, and love yourself. And the client, best way to show love is to understand them the product, if you love the product, and you know it's going to bring the results to the right kind of clients, it's going to be so much easier to sell. And if you have those three loves in place, only then can you feel very, very comfortable, comfortable and confident, to use whatever processes necessary for you to show to people the value that they're going to get when they make that purchase. And that's what the process of selling is, at the root of everything. It's so funny, because my book, technically is a sales book, on the wrapping, but at its root, it's a self help book, because the whole thing is that you're going to be on a journey confronting and communicating with others. So it's going to be a self love journey. And the whole thing is about recognizing where you have fears, where you have blocks and going into sales is just going to shine the light and give you instant feedback on everything you neglected looking into. And so welcome to the journey of growth called sales.

Jannecke Øinæs 32:26

Yet, but I agree, like I don't think you can create a business without working on yourself and doing the inner work. Like creating a business. For me, it has been such like a journey of loving myself diving deep and moving through barriers and obstacles and I had to grow so much self development and follow your purpose. They go together or create a business they go so together. So it's super spiritual. Now, do you have any advice or techniques, or I know you do that you could just share today like a couple of what we can do when we have a service, maybe a service non product, but we're helping people in some way. And somehow we don't dare to charge enough. And we can't really get by like where do we start?

Jason Marc Campell 33:22

Yeah, I'll give this piece of advice, which is very interesting, because the only reason that we often let me let me explain it this way, I think it'd be much more interesting. If, if I had if I had a jug of water. And, and I wanted to pour it into a glass, I could find myself with a glass full of water. But if I took a jug, and I just poured it on a table, it would just kind of spill everywhere, feel wasteful. And nobody's even drinking it. And you're kind of like, oh my god, I might just wasting water here. And I think that's kind of what happens when somebody doesn't decide who is their target market. And that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I see. Especially spiritual people who want to go with a non exclusivity and an or a big inclusiveness type of value around yeah, my what I do can help everybody. And that's the same as just saying like, Well, my water can can quench the thirst of anybody. So I'm just going to pour it on the ground. And then I'm wondering, why aren't anybody coming to me to get a glass of water, and nobody's paying me for this? What's what's going on. And I just feel so empty by the end of the day, because I kept pouring myself given away for free but nobody's responding or interacting, what's going on? And I think that's the best way of me expressing the importance of just picking some sort of parameter on who you want to serve. And I'd say that's just about you know, picking a shape of a glass of water. And may I dare label it as a shot glass to start as a tiny glass of water so that you can actually realize hey, Maybe there's ways that I could go and, and start selling at least for a low amount of money to a specific target, maybe deciding, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just start. And again, this is very similar to the anxiety that comes around picking your grand purpose, I noticed that the same anxiety exists, which is like you have to pick your niche, pick your target market, and then it's like, ah, but if I do, what if somebody that's not the target that shows up and it's like, Don't worry, this can change. And, again, I'm going to, I'm going to relate to my own story, I had my own avatar, my target market, and at first and the first quarter of 2023, I was like, this is not making money, this is not fun. They're hard to find. And it's hard to collect. And this is businesses bleeding money, I needed to go back to the drawing board, and I dislike I almost destroyed my own company with purpose so that I can create room for a new container. So what I'm saying is, it's okay, whatever you pick, you're only going to get those realizations on the journey. And I would not have had the training, the tenacity to be able to handle the new container, if I wouldn't have went through that journey already. So pick whatever seems to fit, right. And I'm gonna give you some again, I kind of highlighted but I'll tell you a good place to start is pick people that are easy to identify within a group. So say you want to work with, you know, women that recently gave childbirth, right? And they're they're maybe having postpartum depression. Like that's, that's a very segmental group. And you could probably find areas that they're there they're hanging out, there might be some identifiable areas that you could communicate with them, which is better than just saying, anybody. It's your first container. And perhaps you're saying, Listen, I'm having conversations with women that recently gave birth. And you know, I'm just asking for $10, in exchange that's given to a donation. And I'm trying to understand how we can support you in your journey of spirituality and reconnecting to the Divine by being a new Monday mother. And maybe it's just the women that have given birth to their first child. So whether that's a good pick, or not, at least take a pick and explore, I think there's too many entrepreneurs that are trying to figure it out all in their own head when all the answers are going to be in the heads of others. So you need to be talking to people. So okay, you pick a group that could be identifiable and easy to segment. The second is trying to pick a group that would have the disposable income to pay for your product and services eventually. So and this is one that I often get friction, particularly with a spiritual group, because there's a part that says, well, there's so many of the people that don't have the funds that I want to help. And may I suggest that if you are not having your own jug full, and well, we'll use water as money in this example. But if your own jugs not full, you have nothing to give. And if you're in a place where you have so much abundance for yourself, because you've decided to pick clients that are paying you what you deserve, and more for what you give as value to them, then you're going to have some extra that you can actually give to so many people who would not be able to buy. So for example, in my case, I work with clients at a minimum of five figures. But I get to publish my podcast for free for everyone who can't afford my product and services because nobody's at, not everybody's at the level where they can afford the products and services with me. But because I serve these clients, I spent 10s of 1000s of dollars for producing this podcast and making it available for free and sharing tons of insights that helps so many more than I ever could if I did try to focus on these people that did not have the disposable income for me to help with in the beginning. And so my total impact is so much less, because I did not pass this filter. So I would definitely include that. The third one is I would say find people that are fun to work with. And that one I'll say is optional. But if you had a pickle, why not people that you would enjoy serving, because if you're coming from a place of joy, gratitude, love, when you serve them is just going to be so much easier to pick up the phone, make some more sales, and work with more people like that, because you know that there's some joy and fun on the other side, other side of every transaction, I love my clients right now, they're so fun, they have big problems, work at solving them. And that's where the joy really comes from. And I'll say the last one, which I think is the most important of all of them is that whatever it is that you offer has a very high likelihood based on where you are, that it's going to be so much more than what you ask in return in value that you provide to them. So you're actually making a positive impact in exchange for what you're selling to them. Now that one requires a gamble, because you don't have the data at the beginning. But again, your intent is going to take you a long way on the journey of just finding a group of people that fit these criterias and just pick up the phone the best you can call them, talk to them if you have a if you have already some contacts, ask people Hey, do you know anybody who and again, I'll use the example of you know firstborn mothers say, call anybody within your Rolodex and don't ask them just say hey, do you know anyone that's recently given birth? I'm giving away these sessions for a small donation fee that really helps them reconnect with the divine firstborn mother. Do you know anyone that could benefit from that it would be really helpful. It's okay to reach out to a lot of people and ask if they know anybody. And that might get you over the resistance, and the fear of rejection as a very low friction initiative for prospecting.

Jannecke Øinæs 40:18

It just makes so sense. And I'm really grateful that you're sharing this. And that's why I also wanted to have you as a guest here, because I know there's a huge audience out there, just wanting to come out with their services and products. They might be some of you guys listening or watching might be in the place where I was, and I just felt felt actually pain about it. And I was thinking that I did the right thing would holding myself back being spiritual, not sort of being offering my services. And when I discovered these principles, when I discovered that it was okay to sell, and then I discovered you and T Harv, Eker. That helped me change my mindset about it, my life has changed, like I have. Our products and services have changed hundreds of people's lives through online courses and membership. And that has never had never happened if I didn't work on myself and change this. And I'm also doing this podcast, because a thought has also been that Okay, maybe not everybody could take my membership or take a course. So let's continue with my YouTube interviews. So I'm really passionate about this topic. And I know that looking at it from a spiritual perspective, also, when we see that, that this is part of my growth, like this is an area where I might not have worked, it's a blind spot, maybe that that is my next step. Because ultimately, I think it's about self love. It's about believing in yourself that you have something to offer the world. And to sort of get over yourself that ego thing that I don't have anything to offer. And to me that was very liberating, actually, in several areas, also that I could live more comfortably, I wasn't suffering so much anymore I wasn't or struggling is where I wasn't struggling so much anymore. Because I could take more care of myself, I could have more beauty in my life, because I could afford it. So it has been a huge change for me. And that's why I'm so excited about your, your mission and your message. Now, at the end of the interview, I'd love for you to share a little bit about what spirituality has helped with you or how it has changed your life. Because I know before we started recording, you said that you know you were an atheist, you were not interested. And then you open up to spirituality. And you you find your product and your purpose. But still, you have grown so much. And that has really changed your life. Could you share a little bit about that?

Jason Marc Campell 43:04

Yeah. Well, I'll continue along the lines of what I said earlier is going from like, non goal setting type of person to one of the most hardcore goals oriented people and I actually follow a process right now called Life Book. And it's basically setting goals in all sorts of categories. And one of those categories is actually spirituality. I have very clear defined beliefs in my spirituality now, a vision, I have a purpose as to why that's important to me, and I have strategies on how to maintain it. And I'm glad you brought beauty into the conversation because I do think that having a serene environment that brings peace calm. And, and that that's that's something I want in my life. It's something that I think is very beautiful to have in my life. And so I set goals around spirituality. Now, I remind myself of the Four Agreements. That was a very powerful book that I I went through as well. Again, I mentioned Neale Donald Walsch, a little earlier, but Conversations with God, that just reminds me of like, okay, we're all these souls, maybe we're just one big soul that's trying to figure itself out this whole journey is we're just trying to figure ourselves out. And what a wonderful journey it is. And it's, it's, it's given me a sense of like, everything's okay. Everything's fun. And let's go and explore. And so it keeps my keeps my curiosity high. It keeps my understanding of setbacks and failures high and it also gives me a sense of trust in the benevolence of the universe. And so I it's, it's interesting to think back of how if you don't have spirituality, it's almost like you buy into the, the consumption experience or the hedonistic experience as the purpose of life, which is like, have more experiences, have more stuff, have more things, and it's in anybody who goes down that path, and I feel like we have so much movies that are trying to communicate that it's not The way that I think once you open yourself up to spirituality and you start realizing how important of a category in your life that is, you start to finally realize that you can find a sense of peace of where you're at, and just enjoy the entire process that's unfolding around you. And that's pretty much the stage that I'm in right now that I get to have a lot of joy, a lot of beauty, and a lot of peace in my life. And I don't take it for granted, because I think it's something that I very deliberately chose. And I think once you get clear on what you want in your life, including in spirituality, those things can become accessible.

Jannecke Øinæs 45:33

Yes, and I believe the more you see yourself as a powerful creator and manifester, you also start to notice those synchronicities and small miracles in your life. That before were just always just a coincidence. And that, in a way, sort of an arrogance to say, Oh, it's just a coincidence, like the universe did nothing or you did nothing. It just happened. But when you start to see that, okay, I manifested this, or I'm a co created this, or the universe gave this to me. To me, that's a humble way of living and a way of living where you're in this constant are like, I'm so grateful, like, look at this, this happened, I manifested it, this happened. That's amazing. And then my experience is that more things like that starts to happen.

Jason Marc Campell 45:38

It's absolutely insane. And I would love to share a quick story as to how this is such a full circle, from my connection to you. And we talked about how it started with a coincidence that I was in Oslo, right? Of every place that could be in the world, where I was going through, I had had a recent breakup, and I was looking for relationship advice. And I found this conversation between Teal Swan and yourself on the podcast. I watched it while in Oslo only to realize that you're here in Oslo, we have that coffee, we continue our connection together. And you were aware of me being at Mindvalley, you eventually opened the door to me and to Teal, which allowed me to bring teal onto Mindvalley's platform to do an interview, which then a coincidence, I organized an in person interview with the founder of Mindvalley. But because her topic wasn't aligned with his, I ended up hosting the interview with Teal in person. And we have, we get to meet and we have a great connection. Fast forward, I keep following up looking for integrations going on Instagram lives with you. Long story short, now, in July since July, I've kept in touch, we've kept them at relationship. And they were looking for a business manager and I'm now the color business manager slash CEO of Teal's entire organization. And that is not something I would have ever planned came from the breakup came from the travel to Oslo. And the most random thing is I had a business plan again with the goal setting. And I was speaking of the types of things that are important in the values of my organization. And there's a concept of another author that I really love, which is Ken Wilber. He's a philosopher. And he speaks about spiral integral theory and stages of consciousness. And there's a stage of concepts and this which is integral, and it has a particular color. And that color is called the teal level of consciousness. And so in my business plan, I had written work with teal consciousness. And my first major client that I jumped into this new role of managing the entire business is Teal Swan. If spirituality doesn't exist, that's a strong case against it.

Jannecke Øinæs 46:33

Oh, my goodness. Universe is so hilarious and Miss hilarious. I'm so glad you share that with me because we don't know the ripple effects of what we're doing. Like I many times, I'm just doing these interviews, and I read some of the comments. But still, it has dawn to me that so much more is happening from these interviews. And naturally, people don't write me about it. Like it happens sometimes that people are writing and like, hey, this happened to me. But I realized that, like most people are or a lot of people are taking some actions after seeing some interviews, and that has ripple effects, again, is just amazing. And that's why I'm so passionate about people following their purpose. Like we're speaking about following their joy because they will help so many other people like it's so divinely orchestrated. And it is about following that joy like that is the path when we start to follow that joy. Then we can we can change the world.

Jason Marc Campell 49:18

Yeah, and honest The, it's such an honor to come back on the show and to be able to share more with your audience. And this is maybe a message I'd want to leave with them as well as just, you know, when you start, and it's like, oh, but I'm only reaching like 20 people I'm not reaching 1000s is like, you have no idea what you mean to those 20 people. You're doing such a difference. And so if we wouldn't, if we wouldn't compare ourselves or spend so much time thinking about our needs, and comparing with others, and start thinking about how we're serving others. You'll, you'll be fine.

Jannecke Øinæs 50:34

Oh, you said so well. And Jason, this has been a joy. And I have three questions that I ask all my guests. And the first one is, what is self love to you?

Jason Marc Campell 50:43

What is self love? Oh, I usually ask what is what is selling? what love means? What is

I think self love, from my side is just a real understanding of what you are is this kind of creature that's learning and fumbling along the process and just understanding and having compassion for yourself. I think, you know, trying to strive for perfection, it's not about having the perfect habits. It's just having an understanding that you're this creature that's here, it's figuring itself out, it's going to make mistake, have some have some compassion. And if you can at least smile a little find some peace. I think that's where the Self Love is going to find itself too.

Jannecke Øinæs 51:31

And what is happiness to you?

Jason Marc Campell 51:35

Peace, right now is peace feels very happy to me. And I wouldn't have said that before. But just seeing things around my life that is happening gracefully. Makes me very, very happy. And it gives me a sense of peace that I very much enjoy.

Jannecke Øinæs 51:51

And Jason, what is the deeper meaning of life from your perspective?

Jason Marc Campell 51:56

I like the concept of the egg. And that's one of those videos you can see on YouTube. They're about the egg. And it's about this like person that dies and then meets with God. But I think we are. We are a perspective, we're just one perspective of a creature that's trying to figure itself out from every perspective, we're all the same creature experiencing every timeline, at every instance at the same time. And that's just every single perspective. It's like mass learning in parallel to figuring out what does it mean to be a God. And so we come to have mortal experiences from various perspective, and every choice you make is a learning of what is right, what is wrong, and we're growing and learning. And that's what our collective consciousness is trying to do. Awesome.

Jannecke Øinæs 52:40

Um, Jason, where can people reach you if they want to connect and follow you?

Jason Marc Campell 52:45

Yeah, I mean, for me selling with love. If you're just looking up selling with love, I think you'll find a lot of stuff about me, I think for usually I have business connections. So I will tell people come to LinkedIn, add a note, tell me you heard of me from wisdom of the North. That's the place that I would, if I see that note, I would definitely want to hear if there's something that impacted you from this conversation. I'll probably send you a bunch of free gifts, free tools, all that stuff, but really, I just want to connect so come and say hi to me on LinkedIn, add a note on the connection and I'd love to hear from you.

Jannecke Øinæs 53:13

Wonderful, thank you so much for coming to the show today, Jason and all the best with your wonderful work.

Jason Marc Campell 53:18

It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Transcribed by

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