The Crisis in Spirituality, and What It Really Means to Be a Healer Right Now! With Matt & Joy Kahn

Matt Kahn 0:00

A lot of spiritual people have been under the impression that, okay, we are ready for ascension. When's the world gonna wake up and get its crap together,

Joy Kahn 0:09

largely in the spiritual community, but the whole world is living in an idea that there's some fantasy of a rescue coming of peace, all of a sudden, falling upon the earth. There is no rescuer coming. There's no one coming. So will we be the one who already came 1000s of years ago to do the work of this moment?

Matt Kahn 0:30

We now have the President saying he's going to release the files of, you know, UFOs and all these things and smart math will say that what will be released, will be false. And I guess we have to wait to see if you know when aliens start popping up in this world, what's the narrative? If they're putting us towards a one world government, we know what. We know what that was, that was false. And if, and if it's about dissolving the power structure, well, that will be a totally different thing. Will light win? Yes, but what does that mean? That means there will be a time in history where the dark beings and their agenda will not run this planet. But here's the most fascinating thing about villains.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:21

Do you want to cultivate a deeper sense of self love? Then I have a self love toolkit for you where I help you boost your self love. Head over to wisdomfromnorth.com/selflovetips. Matt and Joy Khan, a warm welcome to the Wisdom From North show. How are you?

Joy Kahn 1:41

wonderful. Thank you so much for having us.

Matt Kahn 1:43

Thank you. It's an honor to be here

Jannecke Øinæs 1:45

now, you're both internationally recognized spiritual teachers, and Matt, I've interviewed you twice before. You are best selling authors of books like whatever rises. Love that and I love that book and joy. You're also a best selling author and doing amazing work, and now you have teamed up bringing healing and wisdom to the world, and I hope we're going to dive deep today, and I'll throw it over to you. How do you feel a conversation today might expand people's minds and consciousness?

Joy Kahn 2:16

Wow, that's a great question. I think that you know, being able to come together in these conversations, especially during these times, creates an opportunity for people to really put to the test everything they've been becoming for the last many years, especially as they've become aware of things so quickly happening in the world. I think this is an opportunity to inspire people again, and to open people's hearts and to activate even deeper change that the world is asking us for.

Matt Kahn 2:47

Yeah, I think the greatest hope that you know, a lot of times, we use spirituality to have some semblance of hope. What can I hang my my my hope and my belief on, especially in these times when things are so confusing, convoluted and chaotic, we both represent a standpoint that the greatest hope we can find is in uncovering deeper truths. So this conversation will give people hope, not by exchanging one belief or another, not by giving someone a future date where something may or may not happen, we are going to find true hope in truth and have an authentically real and honest conversation, because that's what's going to get us through each day and through The period of history we're living through.

Jannecke Øinæs 3:42

I love that. And I saw a video with both of you where you were speaking about 2026 and you call it the year of mass awareness. And I would almost say the year of truth, because especially in Norway, truth is really coming out. And I mean, we are seeing a crisis in the world, and sort of a spiritual battle, or a battle between light and dark. But I've also heard you say, Matt, that the spiritual community in itself is in a in a crisis.

Matt Kahn 4:11

Yes,

Jannecke Øinæs 4:11

I would love for you to share a bit about your thoughts around that.

Matt Kahn 4:15

Sure. Well, I think that the crisis the spiritual community has been in for many years is we've been talking about ascension. For so many years. We have been talking about awakening. We've been doing our inner healing work. We've been going through our own experiences of awakening. And whether people have been doing the actual work or just speaking about and thinking about or hearing other people talk about the work there. The crisis is that a lot of spiritual people have been under the impression that, okay, we are ready for ascension. When's the world gonna wake up and get its crap together? And what I think is really interesting is that, because of the level of deception. Shouldn't that has infiltrated our world. And I don't just mean this on a level of history. I don't just mean this on a level of geography science, but I include religion and spirituality that so much that we have built our cultural understanding upon, even the New Age community, and I would say especially New Age community, the realization is a lot of the things that we thought were true for so many years have actually are going to and are being revealed as being untrue, and are have been used and are being used to divide numb and shut people down as a form of population control and to control humanity from coming together as one. So the crisis is we thought we were actually coming together as one in truth, and I just speak so directly. In truth, we've been keeping each other company while tending to our inner wounds and traumas, which is a very incredible benefit. But if we're going to come together as one, then that means that we have to start looking at the world and say, What can we do to to start radically using our voice as a collective expression of unity. And what can we do in the name of peace, in the name of non violence, to begin saying, Whoever thinks they run the world, we're not going to live like this anymore, and I think the crisis, and I'm just going to use my teachings as an example. I know Joey has some things to share about this. At one you know every spiritual teacher? Well, there's two kinds of of teachers in this world. There's a teacher that grows with an audience and can guide people through many stages. But when that happens, your teaching and your perspective changes, because your perspective is only for the step that you're currently teaching at. There are teachers whose message never changes, and they're only guiding people through one or a few steps in the staircase. And so my message, our message changes and evolves, not because we don't know which way is up, because at every step of the journey, a different perspective is highlighted and a different thing is emphasized. When I became very popular, it became popular for a book called whatever arises love that and I taught about self love and loving ourselves and healing ourselves through the power of love. And for the people that say that's that's the teaching, that's the only teaching, and they and they lock themselves in that framework, we are going to be under the impression that as long as I love myself more, one day, I'm going to open the door and the world's going to be a peaceful place, and as long as I take time to love myself, more people of this world will be less psychopathic and less ruthless. And what that at this stage of history a couple years ago, that was incredible, because we as healers needed to be initiated. We needed to heal ourselves. That was good. But when you look out into the state of the world and you say, I need to love myself to make that happen less, you're gaslighting yourself.

Jannecke Øinæs 8:29

So interesting.

Matt Kahn 8:30

So, so it's interesting how at one stage it can be essential healing. But then when you go, Oh, the outside war reflects something in me, like that. That means light workers think they're psychopaths, because if the outside world of war is reflecting what's unresolved in us, then we are the psychopaths. We're not. We're here to do the work of God, the work of the Divine, and for us to say, the more I love myself, the more I can make the world a peaceful place. Is missing the next step in the journey, which is bringing your light out into the world for the benefit of all who are being affected.

Joy Kahn 9:13

Beautiful.

Jannecke Øinæs 9:16

Yeah, I'd love to hear your perspective as well joy. And I've also heard you mentioning that the times of or the era of the gurus, is over, and this is tied to this.

Joy Kahn 9:28

Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting, because when Matt and I came together, I had been on a path of awakening and realizing that there are layers of awakening, and of course, we'd have the same realization that awakening never stops. So there, I think there's this idea that we come to a grand spiritual awakening, and then we know it, we remember who we are, and it's over, right? So now, but then that's just the doorway, that's the awakening to all of this. Is that from. Air our journey is to continue to embrace the awakenings that are unfolding so the open curious, being okay with what arises, loving what arises, but also being able to take action. What is my next best step to support the continued awakening? This became really important along my journey, personally, of waking up to who I was and then needing to raise children and needing to look at a world that made no sense for them, they were entering a world that I didn't know where to direct them. Do they go to university? Do they do they become entrepreneurs? Is there a space for them in this world that's changing so fast? And so I started to awaken to the world and awaken to history and get curious about things that I was never curious about when I was in school and when I was young because I was being indoctrinated. And when I began to discover who I was, which many people probably tuning in here have had this awareness we are so much more and if truly the idea that anyone in leadership is afraid of us awakening, if that's a true idea, which I sense is true, I think that's truthful that The light that we offer the world is so immense, so extraordinary, then why are we all hiding in our homes, loving ourselves and afraid of what they're doing in the skies, and worried about our allergies to food? Why aren't we out there doing something to shift and change that? And so I had to step forward in my fears, rather than retreat in my cocoon of love, and to step forward and say, How will I be a participant? And immediately, the vision kept showing me it's to help rally others, not for you to become the one who has the wisdom, but to rally those around you to have the kind of bravery and courage that's required. And so I began devoting myself about the time of covid, I began devoting myself to will I step forward every day, no matter what's happening in the world, to speak the truth that's flowing through and to inspire others to be brave enough to do the same. And when we came together, that was the mission that felt like it just exploded between us, where no matter what it required of us, we were willing to walk where we were guided. And I think that's the world that meets us right now. Will we continue to awaken? Will we be brave enough to see what wants to be shown to us? Because I think a lot of us don't want to see it and and will we embrace the light that we keep saying we are and shine it with unapologetic and I'll say again, bravery. I think that is the the one of the biggest things that's awakening for all of us is the bravery to move beyond comfort.

Jannecke Øinæs 13:04

That's powerful. And I think it's so natural to me that the universe is constantly changing. And obviously spirituality is also evolving, because we see it already from learning how we should meditate with a straight back in a certain position, and that was spirituality, but he couldn't meditate in any other way. So there has been so many rules within spirituality also, and I've started also to awaken to my shadows, especially when I did that many years ago, but also the anger that we shouldn't just accept what's going on. And I so agree with you that we should use our voice and say, you know, we can't accept that this is going on. And I've started writing on my Facebook wall, and I've never done that like I've always just written on wisdom from North pages, but now I'm actually using my own Facebook wall where I'm having all kinds of friends to to dare to be authentic myself, because I've also been afraid of what is acceptable to say in the spiritual community. Will I be judged in the spiritual community? But then I realized, but then I'm not authentic. I got to be me. I mean, I that's my job to be authentic and shine my light in my own unique way. And I've also been thinking about what we've seen with some spiritual leaders who give the impression that they have the answer and that they have the power, instead of empowering the student. And I think it's very important to speak about, because if that continues like the arrow the guru, then we put people on pedestals and we put ourselves below, instead of seeing ourselves as equals. Would you agree?

Jannecke Øinæs 14:55

Wow, I feel like you know we've we've been walking on this path of, how do we navigate that time, collapsing, the time of the guru. Collapsing. This has been something that we have thought about from so many different angles, and it's created a lot of change in our own business and how we operate, because we didn't want to ever be on a pedestal. Working with clients, we both worked with 1000s and 1000s of clients who've gone through journeys of of course, when they awaken, it's it's natural to want to be near that teacher and want to be near that person and put them on a pedestal, because you've been able to experience a breakthrough you've never felt before. We understand that there's a natural inclination to honor and edify those teachers and guides, but that what you're talking about, this subtle transference occurs, this shift in I can never awaken again or break through, or I can't get through my challenges without my teacher. Now becomes this devotion that's being misplaced into us or anyone else who's out there teaching this doesn't just happen to those who are in the public eye. It happens to everyone who's nurturing change and transformation. And so we've been really stepping back. Well, how do we help people with that? And we made a really radical shift. I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about this, this shift that we just made, because I think people don't really understand it yet, but we feel it is so important that we have been really stepping back and not allowing the pedestaling to occur as best we can in order to help facilitate.

Matt Kahn 16:33

Yeah, there was an interesting time, you know, joy and I met at an event, and we were both speaking at the event a year later to the date we're married. So when we met, you know, I was going through a very difficult time in my career, because I started to realize that, like, okay, so throughout my career, I've always taught with one focus, and my focus is that everything I do is a celebration of my devotion and love and service for God. That's why I do what I do, and that's when I'm talking, when we're talking to a line of people, and there's 300 people in line, and we're there with every single person because we are devoted to God, and we serve the God in every person. And so then popularity came, and I thought, well, clearly, I'm going to use this popularity as a way of bringing God's will to the world. And along the way, I helped untangle a lot of misunderstandings about teachings, whether students were misunderstanding or it was taught from a misunderstood position. I was unraveling guru abuse and people who had been manipulated by spiritual communities. And I was doing all this unraveling. And then at a certain point I realized, like it was, I think I was on stage somewhere, and I'm it was in the middle of a middle of a talk, I realized this completely. And it was like I was, you know, you unravel people's manipulation with gurus, and it was like, this feeling of and Matt, that's why you're our new guru. And I was like, how did I get here? I'm trying to unravel this and give people back their power. And my popularity started to make me into the new person on the pedestal, started to make me into the new action figure, and I started to feel more like a product and less like a teacher. And when the teacher evolves and wants to be radical and point and flip things upside down, I realized if I for not for my whole audience, but for a very small percentage of my audience, if I moved anywhere outside of certain boundaries, all of a sudden the people that adored me were the most hostile towards me, and it was like I was an image and an idea that couldn't change in their mind and and in that I wasn't a person. I was a product. And again, this wasn't, this is a very small percentage of the audience, but enough to where I felt crushed by expectations. I felt crushed by needing to be the lifeline and oxygen tank for people when my energy and my transmission is here to give people access to that within themselves. And I've always taught that, but when we came together, I realized I've taught that, I've said that, but I don't know that the message has really been absorbed. It's like I can go on stage and I can talk and I can share these beautiful words, and there's a certain percentage of the audience that would just sit there and feel the energy I can that we transmit, that I transmit, that we transmit, and go, I'm just going to zone out the words are unimportant. Know the word. Are very important, because the words are giving you the guidelines and the context for what you're feeling energetically. And I started to feel like I was being turned into a drug. I started to feel like some people's preferred form of plant medicine, and I started to feel squeezed of my energy and I and I, when we came together to start doing our work, we both had this radical sense of the one thing that I wanted more than anything in my career at this point was actually the thing I was the most afraid of for many years, I wanted to start over, and so I took, we took a YouTube page that has 25 million views, which to me, Thank you. I honor that, but that doesn't mean anything to is a number, and we took down that page, and we started a brand new YouTube page and said, Let's start over. Because who, who who I was, who we are now, and what was is the past, and I don't want anyone clinging to that. What we are here to do is to speak to every spiritual person and say, you've gone through this journey because you're being initiated as a healer. Our work now is to help initiate, guide and train healers to get into the world, to help our world right now, and those are the only people we are helping at this stage of our journey. And if that's where you're being called, then we are going to do an incredible job preparing you for the world. And if not, that's okay. But I want, we wanted the right, and I just say, personally I wanted the right to start over,

Jannecke Øinæs 22:03

yeah,

Joy Kahn 22:04

and I think you know that it's been it was such a big decision.

Matt Kahn 22:07

It was big,

Joy Kahn 22:08

but the harder, the biggest part of it really was, are we? Because once you make a change like that, there's the commitment of we. We are devoted to showing up in that way, where any moment where we can feel ourselves getting to a place where people are consuming the content, without participating, without participating in the journey of what we're teaching, but also not participating in their lives. If we ever become a place people hide from the world we are, we want to make sure that we're adjusting how we're speaking to people, and that we are can, instead of saying thank you, namaste, we're saying no you, you go right. And so we've been challenging ourselves to that, to being able to speak to that all of the time. And I that that change, really, there were so many pieces that contributed to that, but that change was primarily because we were being initiated as the next version of healers that we were intended to be.

Matt Kahn 23:05

Yeah,

Jannecke Øinæs 23:06

wow. I just want to say how amazing I think that was to do that. Because, to be honest, I am pretty attached to my YouTube channel. It feels like part of my life mission and my baby. So to do to make such a decision that is huge, that is huge. But who knows? Maybe I'll get there. Maybe that will happen to me as well, but you followed your own truth, which is this year is all about, and we were speaking a little bit about it before we started recording, that I'm also in my own journey of accessing this truth in myself. What does it mean for me to be authentic also in this work, and for me, at least for now, it is to speak more my own voice and show more of my own personality and my own temper that I have sometimes that I haven't shown so much, but going back to that big shift that you had, because I know that it's more to your story, Matt and you also met at this pivotal time, and that you actually felt that, if you want to go there, that you were dying. You felt that you were dying. I mean, it was pretty serious.

Matt Kahn 24:18

Yeah, I actually thought that I was dying. I actually had feelings in my body. Had visions that I was dying. I had confirmations that I felt like my life was coming to an end. And in the same way that my the universe told me my parents were dying and gave me a five year window, and it was actually completely accurate, I had a sense that I'm dying and I have a certain window, and I thought I was physically dying. The truth was, the way that I was living by life and the choices I was making nutritionally, I had all the medical markers of if I had continued living like that and not making the changes I've made. In my life, I would have probably died. I was, I was very I was, I was in a very interesting window. That was true. So it wasn't like I thought I was dying. Oh, nope, just another ego death. It turned out to be a massive ego death. But the truth was I actually was physically dying. I went through some very strange physical symptoms that were the result of my own choices, as well as complications from the covid vaccine. I was in a position where a lot of places I would speak publicly said, if you're not vaccinated, you can't come into our event space and do your events. And I was and I thought, Oh my God, the word this is the world we live in. Okay, well, I guess is what I have to do. And, you know, I got vaccinated, and I got incredibly sick, and I've been sick for a few years, and I'm just starting to feel better, which is the result of an incredible healing journey, but some massive changes that I made in my life, nutritionally. And so I did go through a death. But what died was an old version of me. What died were the remaining attachments I had, you know, because and want to be as concise as possible when I share this. But my journey was my childhood, and my upbringing was my life, my future. That was my attachment. Who will I become? What will I do with my life? Will I impress my family? Will it matter? And then it became my, you know, my awakening and then my personal story got replaced with my awakening story. And then it became my insights, and the insights I get every day and I share with an audience, and everyone loves it, and I'm being of incredible service to the world, and yet, or the biggest attachment I had was my intuition. I need my intuition. I need my intuition for the work I do, and I still have incredible intuition, but I'm not attached to it. So this death purged me of an incredible amount of attachments, and it put me in a position to to do some of the highest work I've ever done in my career, and that work is called being an amazing husband and an incredible father, and I'm an incredible husband to an amazing wife.

Joy Kahn 27:38

Yes, you are.

Matt Kahn 27:39

Thank you. We have incredible children. I have step children. I have step grandchildren as well. And it's actually changed me as how I look at the healing journey in an incredible way. But I did go through a Duff. It was a Duff, and it's a death that causes me to say who I am today, and what we teach today is the focal point, and who I was before was wonderful. It was great. But the greatest teachings should always be like a mandala painting. Make the most beautiful painting that no one has ever seen, and don't forget to take it out to sea and watch it drift away. And that's what I did with my YouTube channel. I took my YouTube channel and all those teachings, and I said, this is a mandala, and the way I will honor what I was given is by taking it to sea and letting it drift away. And that was one that, along with taking all the folders of all the quotes I ever channeled since I was 13, I started channeling I was 13 years old, all the quotes from 13 to 20 something. I had 10 or so many folders filled with all the insights from the universe, and I burned them. Wow. I let them go,

Joy Kahn 29:01

but it's, you know, I think everything, the culmination of anything you ever taught, or I ever taught, was that the value isn't in those recordings, the value isn't in the notes. It's not in the notes that people take when they come to an event. It's in who they become, in that moment that they carry with them. Matt is the culmination of all of that. And anyone who was a part of that and activated it into their own life and story, they've already embodied those teachings. And so more will come. The next will come. And that's, I think the radical shift we're all stepping into, is, will I allow myself to become something, not attached to something, to attach to an idea or an identity, will I allow myself to simply become every day and trust the becoming

Matt Kahn 29:50

well? And just to add to that, I love how you put that if you're attached to something as your icon of God, if it's a matt con video, if it's a. A holy bible, whatever it is, whatever you attach and say, This is where God is. God now cannot be everywhere. God now cannot be everything. And the only thing that exists in me from my old teachings is the glory and presence of God. And anything, anyone is absorbed from those old teachings, which is beautiful, what they're left with is the glory and presence of God. And if, and if someone in our position is such a distraction and is replaced with that glory and presence of God, we have to disappear in some way so that they can be in true communion with what someone like us is trying to introduce other people to, and that's our duty.

Jannecke Øinæs 30:48

It's pretty amazing to listen to. This is really touching me. I'm so glad you're going there, and I feel like this is the new the new spirituality, and who knows where it goes from there, but it seems like a new spirituality is emerging. I wanted to touch a little bit upon the ego, because the ego has so many ways of tricking us. We know the spiritual ego, for instance. But I'm curious about the fact about what we see in Norway right now, many, many leaders that we were trusting. We're such a trusting country, they have deceived us. And it seems like with power and success, the ego, in a way, gets stronger. And I'm curious, because we all, I assume, would like to be happy and would like to feel safe in life and feel like we're thriving. But does that entail that the ego grows like, how can we meet success and thriving without having that ego wanting more all the time, will it always want more?

Joy Kahn 32:02

Well, I can feel this is a two part answer between us. I think, you know, first, I always like to speak directly to the ego, because the ego is an ally in training and initiation. It just doesn't know it. And we've been living in an era of deception. That is the era we've been in, which means deception has had the advantage. There's no place deception hasn't touched, there's no country, and there's no person that deception has not touched, because that's the era we've been living in. That's been the initiation. Will we see through the deception, including the deception that we participate in and are unaware of everything has been a layer of deception, whether it's deciding to participate in marketing, whether it's purchasing something that we know we're being deceived. We know we're hoping that it's going to be something and there's some layer of deception, and it's always been, well, this is how we influence this is how we get the advantage and create a successful business, and this is how we thrive. And so that's all. Layers of leadership and authority have leveraged some sort of deception that they deceive themselves by believing I'm doing this for moral reasons. I'm doing this for the greater good, or not. There are many who don't do it for the greater good, and they're aware there's an advantage to deception. So the ego has been playing the same game with us. How can I deceive the one I'm with to get my way? Because that's the way that we've been operating. It's an alignment we've been operating from that at some level, if I can just get the greatest version, the highest vibrational version of deception, then I'm okay. And there's a radical shift happening for all of us, where, when we see these extreme deceptions, they're awakening the parts of us that didn't see and didn't want to see because we weren't ready for that shift into greater transparency, authenticity, discernment, care, concern, connection, community, like truly what it takes to build that the ego was saying, No, I'd rather focus on this, because that's where the greatest payoff is. And so now, as the payoff dissolves, there's not a lot of payoff to deception anymore, and as we see through it, it opens up the opportunity for the ego to then be initiated to its next greatest role, which isn't to be our deceiver, but to be our ally.

Matt Kahn 34:35

Yeah, I think just, I loved how you just worded that. I think you know, we're all trying to, we've all been trying, or a lot of people been trying to let go of their ego, you know. And I think that, just as a funny play in words, instead of letting go of your ego, it's more about letting grow of your ego, meaning your ego is here to mature. And I'll give you an example. It's. Pride. Pride is a wall people hide behind to stay attached to their standpoints. Pride can lead to arguments between family members who sit on opposing sides of a political spectrum. If you're into that, pride can be what turns allies into enemies. Pride can be a very ugly energy that turns that creates entitlement, resentment and righteousness, but when it matures, you have you have a level of pride, like pride of ownership, meaning, part of my spiritual practice is not just how open my heart is, but how clean my house is. My spiritual practice is not just how radiant my chakras are, but how I communicate with my wife and children. Right? So pride, the pride that we take and in our life, the way we think of it, is that each moment we're in, and we don't think of it like intensely, but when you have a positive, mature amount of pride, 15 years of my spiritual path, comes down to only one thing, and that's this moment, how I'm showing up with you, how I'm showing up with my wife, how we're showing up together? There is no 15 years ago, I saw a flash of light. Six months ago, I saw something in the sky. Think it was a UFO. All that matters is whatever happened in the past. How is it allowing me to step up right now, and only right now, into this moment? That's that's a positive aspect of pride. And I think that we talk about the path of success from a business perspective, where we talk about a spiritual path of success. There's one thing that matures your ego and there's one thing your ego hides from good thing. It's the same thing, and that's difficulty. And so difficulty is someone who owns a farm, who does a lot of physical labor, and over the years, they have an incredible physique. They fit their clothes. They look amazing. They look like a superhero. The ego is the one that says, How do I look like that without doing any of that amount of work that's difficult. That's the ego it wants, the vanity it wants to fit into. The genes. Wants its butt to look like that, but it doesn't want to do what it takes to create that. And what creates that? If you live on a farm a life of difficulty, the spiritual journey has been promoted as this is what gets you out of difficulty. The truth is it gets you out of suffering. As a result of difficulty, you start to see difficulties not a setback. It's not a failure, it's not sabotage. It is when I am blessed by the Divine. The greatest evidence sometimes that I'm being blessed with a gateway into my next highest self are the difficulties, obstacles and challenges that come my way, and when we are so connected to the Divine, that's what fuels us to move through it and say thank you, no matter how inconvenient or frustrating it can be. Now we are truly, truly following the path of God's will. And so it's not about letting go of your ego, because who you become when you let go of your ego is another version of your ego. It's about what is your relationship with difficulty, and are you sitting there muttering to yourself, This too shall pass? Are you? Are you? Are you watching people who talk about remote viewing and going, when's the shit gonna come to an end? Or are we actually just saying this is the world we live in. This is the timeline, and we have to come out of our houses, and we have to say the helpless parts of us will be healed by being more helpful to others around us, and we have to be able to stop avoiding and negotiating with difficulty, and we have to begin to make peace with it. And that's that's what our life looks like behind the scenes. It's incredibly blessed. We have an amazing life, and there is never a day where something isn't difficult and and thank God,

Jannecke Øinæs 39:37

thank you for shedding some light on that. That was very helpful and fresh. I loved it. And you mentioned the word timelines, and I saw a video where you had downloaded some premonitions, I would say about 2026, or what was coming. And the first one is that all timelines have converged. Into one, and it might be the lack of my English understanding being a Norwegian, but I've heard a lot of spiritual teachers speak about a split, but here I feel like it's coming together. So I'd love for you to, yeah, share some light on that.

Joy Kahn 40:17

Yeah, I'll start with, you know, it's interesting as as you do readings, you know, as we've done readings our whole careers, that that's how we got started, was really just feeling what comes through and allowing those without filter to be shared with others, for hope, hope of inspiration. And I feel like when something comes through like that, it's trying to help us understand something, and whether or not it's really only one timeline, none of us truly knows. We might have speculation. We have a lot of science that says, yes, there are multiple universes. And perhaps that's true, and perhaps it's not, but I really feel like that vision came through us because it was asking us to let go of the fantasy and possibility that there was another path and to walk the one we're on, because whatever one we're on is our only one there. There may be multiple but you're on the one you're going to be on. And I think that's truly what that message meant, is your path, the one you're walking now is set in place you are walking it, and will you walk it with your highest regard, your highest care, your devotion and your willingness to show up and participate in it, rather than looking for a place to escape or a place to go, or to try to quantum jump into a different timeline, where there isn't the political leaders that we currently have or the experience we're having, and there's there's nowhere to go, I think, is what spirit was trying to help us see not as a punishment, But as a clear opportunity to embrace our lives, fall in love with what we can do, and make the best of it. And I think there's a lot of fantasy happening in the in, we'll say largely in the spiritual community, but the whole world is living in an idea that there's some fantasy of a rescue, coming of peace, all of a sudden, falling upon the earth, and we are the pathway of that. It's not coming to us. It's there is no rescuer coming. And I think that's been the very clear message for many years now, is there's, there's no one coming. So will we be the one who already came 1000s of years ago to do the work of this moment? So I think that's the primary message is, can we look forward as if this is the only timeline possible right now and live it fully?

Matt Kahn 42:47

You know, it's interesting, because so many have had experiences of beings from other planets, dimensions. I included in that, yeah, and there's also evidence that the story of aliens has been created behind the scenes since the 1940s as one of the most long term storylines used to deceive humanity. We now have the President saying he's going to release the files of, you know, UFOs and all these things and smart math will say that what will be released will be false. And I guess we have to wait to see if you know when aliens start popping up in this world, what's the narrative? If they're putting us towards a one world government, we know what. We know what that was, that was false. And if, and if it's about dissolving the power structure, okay, well, that will be a totally different thing. But when we talk about timelines, think, and I loved how you just put that. I think that part of the gas light, because, again, something can be wise and insightful and it can be used as a gas light. The Gaslight is people are so in need of hearing about other timelines, because they say to themselves, well, those other timelines are just outside my awareness, which is a gaslight towards ourself, meaning I'd have a different experience If only my awareness was better, and if I can then take some courses or learn some skills, and somehow better my awareness, I can then become aware of these parallel timelines, jump into a different wormhole, and good luck to all the people behind me. Good luck to you. And then what all the people who are suffering, all the people that are spiraling are those just the people that were weren't smart enough to know about timelines like we have to. We're at a time where it's like life wants us to say, this is the world we're living in. This is we have to move through. It's difficult. It's inconvenient. It's unfair. It's all of these things, most of which we've been taught in history is completely fabricated, untrue or rewritten. And so then the question becomes, what will I do with the awareness I have with the amount of healing I've already done. And maybe the completion of my healing journey doesn't occur by staying inward, but by coming out into the world and knowing that my healing journey prepared me to meet all these different people who are going to go through things they don't even know what's happening. And maybe that's how I've been trained to be able to help other people. And it's ironic that you don't complete your inner healing journey until you decide to come out and start helping other people. That's why every dark night of the soul is initiating each of us into being a healer, no matter how that looks, whether I start a healing business, I help my family, I help my relatives. We're all going to play different roles, but there's no one who has ever come to our events. There is no one that's ever watched your show. There is no one that has read all of these books who wasn't a healer being initiated. So if we start to kind of see it from a different perspective, we start to go, Okay, this is the world we live in, and it feels like it's upside down, but this is what it feels like when life is being turned right side up, and the real purpose of a spiritual community is to support each other as we find the individual strength to step forward and not to try to oppose anything in the world, but to support the amount of people who are continually shut down and inundated by all this bombardment. We're here to help each other, and now is the time

Jannecke Øinæs 47:07

beautiful. It was interesting. What you said, joy that no one is coming to rescue us, because the title of one of my webinars is you are the hero you have been waiting for. And it might be the title of my book. I'm writing a book right now because I was waiting for myself all along, even though in my 20s, I was waiting for a man on a white horse or something or someone to just discover me on the street. So I think we go around a lot in life waiting for something to happen, and then we have the power inside all along. Now I do want to ask about another prediction you had about a big event, a painful event, and then you mentioned joy, that something is hiding behind the sun. And I just had to go there, because I got really, really curious about it.

Joy Kahn 48:01

We're really curious about it. We've actually not had a lot of information come since that prediction. We're aware that something's happening. It feels like there is, of course, along with all the other deceptions, a deception about the solar flares and what might be instigating them and what might actually be happening in the greater world that we're in. There's a, you know, there's the crazy debates between, is the world flat, is the world round? But I think there's something else, right? There's something else going on. There is a deception of some sort about the world we live in, and it seems to be, it has to do with what might be influencing or to say, our solar system, there's something influencing it, and it keeps getting stronger and stronger, and our understanding is that there's something else that's fueling life, in some way, that is moving through and it's interesting because in ancient Egypt and many other cultures, they worshiped The sun right, as being this divine gift, this divine God that was fueling all life and and the sun is worthy of adoration. Celebration, you know, thank you, you. You keep us alive that the warmth from the sun is so immense, and we're grateful, and it also opens up our consciousness. So the the flares, the things that are happening are serving us, but there's likely something behind it, especially right now, that is instigating even more. And we don't feel like it's orchestrated by a nefarious force. It feels like something very natural. And yeah, we haven't tapped we should probably tap into this again, but we haven't had a lot come through, yeah,

Matt Kahn 49:42

since then, nothing's really come through. And if it does, I mean, obviously, stay tuned. We'll let you know. But you know, one of the amazing things about being an intuitive is that information comes to us. We don't go to it,

Joy Kahn 49:56

yeah?

Matt Kahn 49:56

So we are always receiving information, but then when that. Information kind of stops for a moment. We go, oh, well, maybe that something will come up up in a few months, or whatever. But since then, nothing's really come to us. We do notice an incredible amount of solar activity and everything that's happening in the world, from an you know, from a global warming perspective, is the natural cycle of the planet. So, you know, we're just kind of waiting to see what comes through. But, yeah, nothing more has come to us.

Joy Kahn 50:32

Yeah, I think, you know, the opening of the conversation keeps moving to the veils are dropping around deception, and we're getting some sort of help. We don't have rescue, but there's something consciously that is serving the advantage. We'll say it this way, and this is something we've talked about quite a bit. Is the advantage is changing. You know, earlier I talked about the advantage of deception, there is an advantage of the light, and the more we step forward, the more we actually engage in that advantage, we start to have things serve our benefit. And the the solar flares in the sun is one of those expressions of giving an advantage to those walking the path of the light. And I think that's something we'll we'll talk about a lot more is how to continue to engage that advantage, how to use that, whether comfortable or uncomfortable, not to hide from ourselves, but to actually move those gifts forward. So I think that's a lot of what that prediction was inspiring or supporting

Matt Kahn 51:33

well, and just add to that, the advantage of the light is not doing to the dark what the dark does to the light, yeah, the advantage of the light is becoming that aligned version of yourself that has nothing the dark can manipulate, take or coerce, so to be so wealthy in your Light that there's nothing anyone can take from you that's true, abiding alignment in the light. And so we're all being trained for that.

Jannecke Øinæs 52:08

And as intuitives is, can you see that the light is winning over the dark?

Joy Kahn 52:19

I would say that we don't see it necessarily as a battle. We do see that there's a very there's a very real evil in the world, and that evil has a desire that isn't supported by the universe. Their desire is to invert the entire universe, so to invert it to a place where deception is maintained, where the veil can stay, where deception is maintained, and they can live from that perspective, they have a desire. But I would say, like all desires, every human comes to a point where they realize that some desires don't serve the greater the greater evolution of humanity that desire will not sustain. And in those terms, we would say, yes, the light is inevitably going to win, because the desire is in alignment with reality, and their desire is in alignment with a fantasy that they think they can control, manipulate, distort to get their way. But they ultimately are not the creators of the universe that they'd like you to think they are. So that's the it's the greatest ego deception happening for them. And like all egos that think they're the one, it will collapse.

Matt Kahn 53:29

Well, I love how you just said, said that. Okay, so because I love, I love this question. So if we look at a chessboard as as a metaphor. We think that the black pieces is evil and the white pieces is light. And we think that the game of chess is the battle between light and dark. The dark pieces are the are those who have, who are the who have denied the divine to such a degree that they are completely removed from it, and they feed off of taking that light from other people, psychopaths, really dark beings. It exists. The people that are the Light Beings are actually still a part of that dark agenda, but just not to the same intensity. And those two groups are fighting in the same elite class. The light is not any piece on the board. The light is the board holding it all so the light is the space where this battle is taking place, not any one side of the battle. Will light win? Yes, but what does that mean? That means there will be a time in history where the dark beings and their agenda will not run this planet. But here's the most fascinating thing about villains. And evil which exists, and it's not very comfortable for a lot of light beings to think of it that way, because we try to keep ourselves safe. But there is a truth that is very uncomfortable. These things do exist. If you talk to someone who is totally in that side, they would say, When will the light thank us for sacrificing ourselves to be villains, to make light beings step into their power and step into their courage and finally, be the leaders that they were born to be. When do we get thanked for all of this, that's psychotic. But the truth is, is, if we were all to step into our power, no one would be running this world with deception. So there will be a point where the light wins, which means the deception disappears and the light will win. Darkness will no longer run this planet when each person of the light steps into their power and says, We will not have a planet that runs this way. And so it takes a villain to create a hero, but if we all become the hero, we no longer need a villain to play a role. So when do we all do that? And so we've decided we are going to do that. We are doing that. And every time we're on an interview, every time we're working with our community, every time we go through our house and put excess food and give it to a food pantry. Every day we are looking at ways to be the hero, to help darkness reach a state of cosmic unemployment. But we need everyone to step up so that the the world can exist without needing that prompt. We don't need darkness in order to step into our empowerment. That's how you break the spell of duality.

Jannecke Øinæs 57:05

Highly interesting. Thank you for these perspectives. This was so honest and raw. I really loved it. I mean, it makes so much sense, and especially that metaphor with that, the chessboard, that is the light and yeah, because darkness has a purpose, like doing the shadow work, we could know who we are as light beings, if we didn't perhaps have the darkness. That is the perspective that makes sense to me. At least, I would like to wrap up with coming back to self love, because that is one of my questions that I ask all my guests. So I'll start with you, Matt, what is self love to you today?

Matt Kahn 57:54

Fierce honesty is the new self love I once lived a life where I in my journey, there were things arising and I would it would be an awareness that whatever comes up is next in line to be loved. I've taught that it's it's true, but that part of me got loved enough times where the most astonishing thing happens to the inner child. It grows up and it outgrows the need for that momentary loving yourself. So I have grown into a being who celebrates all the love I've given myself and all the love I've given to this world through a journey of fierce honesty. I've always been honest based on everything I was aware of, but once I become aware of other things, I share that lovingly and fiercely I am under no, I am not opposing darkness, but seeing the seeing darkness as a wounded hurt people, hurt people is not going to be what helps us step into our power. What helps us step into our power is I live by a level of integrity, but I will no longer live on a planet that permits this type of behavior, and we hold a certain space in our lives. And so for me, self love is fierce honesty, and self love is acting from a place of self respect and leading by example.

Matt Kahn 59:40

That's what self love is for me today,

Jannecke Øinæs 59:43

powerful. Thank you.

Joy Kahn 59:44

I would I agree wholeheartedly, obviously. And you know, we live from that place, and as you ask that question, you know self love has been both of our journey in parallel, before we met each other, and it was the awakening, right? So. Love has gone on its own awakening journey with me, where I awakened to the feeling of love. So I first self love meant, can I feel love for myself? And that's really, truly where I think it begins for many of us, is, can I even allow myself to feel love for me? Can I look at myself in the mirror and not try to turn away? It began there, and then it became, how can I allow myself to have the greatest advantage in the world? I devoted myself to manifesting a better life, moving out of suffering in a very challenging time, first 35 years of my life, in a very challenging mental, emotional and physical state of living, and so self love was manifesting a new reality, right? Really pouring myself into what advantage can I give myself? What can I create? And that felt like such a loving expression to, you know, not chase, but attract everything right, to have, have it all just unfold for me. That was the measure of my love. The more I loved myself, the more my life should be better, and today I sit in the truth of to love myself is to live the life that I was already given advantage to live I was already given a life that was going to unfold. And am I courageous enough to live the life I have to love myself in the life that I have to love my life without my life needing to change. The ability for me to live in love is much easier than trying to love myself. I simply am grateful and respect the life I've been given and my my love has flourished in ways that I could never even imagined back in those early days of trying to love myself by looking in the mirror. Now I simply see everything is the mirror of the love that I am, the mirror of the love that the Divine is. And by accepting the truth of that love is a natural state of being, and to I would say to us, that is the embodiment of to embody self love is how we experience self love

Jannecke Øinæs 1:02:04

that is so inspiring. Thank you so much. I love that. And the final question, maybe the biggest one of all, what is the deepest meaning of life from your perspective?

Joy Kahn 1:02:19

Yeah, well, I love I mean the word itself implies life to me, I would answer that from the perspective, well, what is life? Life is being in this body and expressing and creating. So can I fully be in this body as the AWARE individual that I am? There was What a time in my life when I thought the highest level of experience in life was living in the middle of nowhere. I spent nine months living in the trees, meditating eight to nine hours a day, and living this really euphoric. Everything was color, nothing was really shaped. I was in this beautiful, expanded state, and I would have thought that was the point to get out of this body and to live in that but it was the coming back into the body and saying, Do I dare live from that awareness here now? And I think that's the highest meaning of life, is, can I live fully as I am, the part of me I remember that's out of this body, the part of me that is in this body. Can I live as one here, not try to escape into a one that I think doesn't include this body? Can I be one right here, that as the ultimate meaning of life? For me,

Matt Kahn 1:03:32

I love that.

Joy Kahn 1:03:33

Yeah,

Matt Kahn 1:03:33

just reflecting on the beginning my career, when I was in Los Angeles, there was a group of other healers that would get together once a week, and we'd have these meetings, and we talked about the state of the world, we'd all channel messages. We'd all channel what's happening in the world. And it was very, it's very, very seductive.

Matt Kahn 1:03:54

And in a certain after a couple weeks of these meetings, like, I think the fifth week, I think I said something, and I said, So what are we going to do something like, What do you mean? I said, all we do is get together and talk about this. We talk about it, we talk about consciousness, we talk about ourselves, we talk about growth. When are we going to go out into the world and actually do something? And I left the group, and I went out and started teaching and started doing a lot of things, and that memory reminds me that the moments we can all sit together and talk about, here's how I see the meaning of life, here's how I see the meaning of life. And you know, oh, what I hear, what I think I hear, you saying, is, you know, and repeat it back to you. We can have this beautiful exchange, and we think that that's the meaning of life. And for some people, that might be the meaning of life, but for me, all I can do is talk about me. I don't talk about other people. Talk about me. The greatest meaning of life are the actions we take. Because if I take appropriate action, What I am demonstrating in my actions is what I can sit here and tell you with words, but I don't want, aside from an interview, I don't want to sit around with people and at events. I don't want to sit around with my family and just say the words of the meaning. I want my actions to demonstrate the meaning. So instead of sitting around and telling myself the meaning of life, I get I stand up, I go and I feed someone, or we create a program to help bring more healers to the world. So what we always think about is, what action steps are we taking to move this meaning that is awakened within us out into the world? I've used a lot of words in my career. I've spoken a lot of words, and I love words. We both do, but I'm at a place in my life where the greatest meaning of life are the actions I take and I was talking. It reminds me very quickly, someone recognized me at an event and didn't know about my teachings. And asked me, Can you tell me about what your teachings stand for? And I happened to be in a little bit of a radical mood that night. Sometimes I'm a little bit of a spicy mood. And they said, What are your teachings about? And I looked at them and I said, Just watch me. And they said, What? I said, Just watch me. I said, you'll know what I teach by watching how I behave and engage in this world. Just watch me. I'm at a place where I love speaking and sharing and helping people, but we want to help healers be their most powerful expressions. I'm done just saying words. My words are the clearest understood if you watch the actions that we take, and that, for me, has been the discovery of the deepest meaning of life,

Jannecke Øinæs 1:06:53

inspiring. And I think that's why we have expressions like walk, the talk and Action speaks louder than words. And to me just mentioning the ascension word, just to wrap it up, in a way, I thought it was all about getting out there, out of my body. Yoo hoo. It was so, so fascinating. And then it's such a relief to have come to a place in myself where I'm like, it's all about coming back to my body, being Yannick, being here and now, and being present and actually living my life and but that also came after healing and after feeling that I'm good enough, and after starting, starting to love myself, then I didn't want to abandon myself and ascend up there somewhere. And I think that's where we're coming back to now is coming back to our bodies and grounding ourselves and being part of Gaia and being present in the experience we're having now, like really fully now, I wanted to ask you for everyone who is now interested in learning more or follow You on this healing journey, where can they go,

Joy Kahn 1:08:01

Well, you know, right now, we are deeply devoted to helping people return to themselves and really return to themselves and feel that love of their life and their path. And so we are currently on tour. You can visit our website, and we have tour dates. We're coming to local cities, at least in North America at this time. But we have a new book that's coming out March 28 called the healers code, which will give people a really deeper understanding of just how they can love their self themselves even more. Yeah, I would just say to our website, Matt and con mattanjoy.org

Matt Kahn 1:08:39

mattanjoy.org and again, our work right now is to focus on helping healers step fully into their power and to learn how to work with others in a way that guarantees transformation for those that they want to serve. So it's very incredible work. Madden, joy.org, it's a brand new day. It's a brand new paradigm, and we're so blessed to be with you and to serve this incredibly beautiful world. No matter what's happening in the world, greater things are arising, and we're just so grateful to be a part of it.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:09:11

Thank you so much for coming to the show today and for all your work.

Joy Kahn 1:09:16

Thank you,