Exploring the Nature of Reality – a walk between worlds! With Dr. Jude Currivan

Dr Jude Currivan 0:00

And the emerging understanding is that our universe is an essentially living, conscious, evolving, non locally unified entity. And what that does is it's showing us that it meaningfully exists and purposefully evolves, and therefore everything in it has meaning and purpose, including us. So it really is far closer to ancient wisdom than it does to that old mechanistic paradigm that was only partially resolved.

Jannecke Øinæs 0:44

hello. Jude, a warm welcome to the show.

Dr Jude Currivan 0:47

Thank you, Jannecke, as ever, it's lovely to be with you, and it's been a while, so it's my great joy to be together again today.

Jannecke Øinæs 0:55

It has I first met you, I think it was in 2014 or something, and I was just beginning my career of interviewing, and I can't believe I dare to interview you with that deep wisdom and knowledge. I mean, you're a scientist, a physicist from Oxford, and you've written tons of books, and it's just so inspirational, how you make that bridge between science and spirituality. And there are tons of things I would like to dive into today, and I also want to thank you for actually being part of my membership, because you're part of the panel of my teachers in wisdom from North membership, we have a beautiful class about the evolution of a conscious universe. So thank you so much for that. That's really an honor for me.

Dr Jude Currivan 1:36

Oh, bless you. Thank you. And I love the building the you're doing with your community. It's so important now. So thank and bless you for all you're doing and highlight towards community.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:48

Yeah, thank you. And I would like to go many places today, and I know you can also and what I find interesting is that you started to become a physicist and went into, you know, science, but from an early age, you said that you walked between worlds like from you were actually 44 years old, and I would love for you to share what what that experience was like being a four year old, walking between Worlds, and what it really means to walk between worlds.

Dr Jude Currivan 2:26

Well, you know, I think a lot of children walk between worlds, actually, and I, you know, and then, and then, perhaps because they're surrounded by family and teachers and society that perhaps tell them that they're imagining things, they tend to shut down. And some forget, you know, that they've had these experiences. And others, there's a sense of loss because of that. I never told anybody, basically. So when I was four years old, a discarnate light came into my room, and I started to hear a voice, not through my ears, but on an inner level, and that that really began a lifelong journey of communication, engagement, learning, exploration, that literally was not limited, per se, to the this this world or the appearance of this world, but was very much multi dimensional. So I was having conversations with angels, and I was having telepathic communications and pre cognitive dreams and out of body experiences. And it wasn't anything I searched for, but it was very much an invitation to to explore. And it's been my journey ever since, and it's enriched my journey in unbelievable, you know, in an incredible, I was going to say unbelievable ways, and some of my experiences probably would appear unbelievable. And I share them just because they are my experiences and they've enriched my life. And I'm sure many, many other people have had their own experiences, some similar, some probably very different, but what it's enabled me to do is to share the understanding of reality that's far greater than were often led to believe and therefore limited to experience.

Jannecke Øinæs 4:27

So what was it like growing up with these abilities? Like, did you have a family that supported that? And was like explaining, yes, you know, this is how it can be also, or were you very lonely in this.

Dr Jude Currivan 4:42

I didn't have a family who, I put it this way. I had an incredibly supportive family. It just never occurred to me to share any of this, not just with my family, but with my friends and with my teachers and with my wider community. And no, I wasn't. Lonely at all, because I was having these incredible relationships with what we might call discarnate entities and intelligences and wisdom keepers and guides. So I just felt very fortunate, and I was having an incredible journey of exploration, as I say, one that continues to today. So in the course for our community, I've explained why now leading edge science and the latest discoveries are converging with Universal Wisdom Teachings to show a reality that's far greater than we've often been taught is the case. You know, the old paradigm of science tells us that you know this reality, our universe is the physical reality is the only one, and it's a reality made of separate things, and we're now turning that on its head. But what we're realizing is that we're rediscovering and taking forward what Universal Wisdom Teachings have told us for millennia.

Jannecke Øinæs 6:07

So what I find interesting, and I'm curious about, is that, why did you become a scientist? Was that really to understand more of what you were experiencing already from a new perspective, or was it sort of to be able to share this message in a scientific way, because you could have become a spiritual teacher.

Dr Jude Currivan 6:30

Well, I have many hats, and it's been a very scenic route of my journey. So in a sense, I am a spiritual teacher and I'm a scientist and and many other things. So with that sense, it was the former. It was more to as I continue this incredible journey of walking between worlds of multi dimensional realities where mind and consciousness, I realized, are not something we have, but literally, what we and the whole world are it? I was really fascinated by how science was also on this journey of exploration, but had limited itself. And I understand the history of science and and I'm a student of that as well, but has limited itself to this. You know this, what we call the physical realm, and has pushed to the side any further, any exploration of the nature of consciousness certainly peripheralized it, and in doing so, it, it's, it's what we say in in Britain, throwing the baby out with the bath water. Because what we're now realizing that without an appreciation of mind and consciousness, which is fundamental to the nature of reality, we can't, you know, dive deeper into that fundamental realization. But for me, the science was, how does what I'm experiencing connect with what the physical world seems to be about? And so it gave me a language. It gave me a methodology of exploration, which was a method, not the method, but at that time, it wasn't to share it. It was just my curiosity, and now after all these years, it's got me to a place where I can share it from that perspective of convergence and a realization that reality is unified, and its unity is expressed in radical diversity. So I can speak science, or I can speak spirituality, or I can speak art, or I can speak economics, or I can speak well being. You know, because all of these things are just different ways of expressing this, this understanding.

Jannecke Øinæs 9:01

So I may ask, where your impression or what are the scientists now agreed upon when it comes to the nature of our reality, and what would you say they are missing? Are they more open now to this unified field, and that reality is an illusion, perhaps, which Albert Einstein really said that it was. Is have we evolved in science now so there is an understanding of a oneness and no separation, or are we still not there.

Dr Jude Currivan 9:42

It's a work in progress, I would say. But you know, like all revolutions, and certainly scientific revolutions, they are built often from an accumulation of evidence that cannot ultimately be understood within the old container. The old paradigm, the old model. And that began, really about 100 years ago, when scientists were discovering the common realm, the realm of the very, very, very small, and realizing that it was showing us that that an observation of a phenomenon was not therefore the observer was not able to be separated from the phenomenon, so the subject and object were really both part of a larger whole. And it was also showing us quantum physics was showing us that whilst within space and time, the speed of light is a limit in speed. It's the it's the is the universal speed cop for any signals to go within space time, which is vital, because otherwise we couldn't have this conversation. We couldn't talk about a universe that began 13 point 8, billion years ago, where there is a flow of time from that first moment to this moment, and yet, and it's not an either or, there's a both, and that our universe exists and evolves as a unified entity, where, in its wholeness, it knows itself. It's what's called non locally unified. And yet, you know, 100 years ago, when that was being seen as an underpinning for quantum phenomena to work at all, it was sort of okay, sort of, let's deal with that later, because we can't get our heads around it now, also the relativity of time and space as seen From an observer. Einstein's genius, in my view, was not realizing that space is relative to an observer and time is relative to an observer. He went beyond that to realize that we had to expand those two perceptions of space and time into a single perception of what he called space, time. And when we do that, we realize that the our universe is is, basically is is combined. Those two are combined. So that when we as an observer, observe a phenomenon, but instead of just giving it three coordinates of space or one coordinate of time, we bring them together into four coordinates. And what that allows us to do, any observer anywhere at any moment, can actually describe the same phenomenon without disagreement, with agreement, we can agree, and therefore that gives us an ability to have an agreement of the reality of our universe. But what those incredible breakthroughs 100 years ago did for us, they didn't themselves go far enough, because consciousness was pushed to one side, and there was still the old model still was maintained, a model of material, materialism and separation with another 100 years on. The evidence we now have is turning that upside down, and the emerging understanding is that our universe is an essentially living, conscious, evolving, non locally unified entity. And what that does is it's showing us that it meaningfully exists and purposefully evolves, and therefore everything in it has meaning and purpose, including us. Everything in it has an evolutionary purpose, including us. So it really is far closer, without the evolutionary aspect, to ancient wisdom than it does to that old mechanistic paradigm that was only partially resolved through 20th century science, but now it's being wholly resolved, at least, to this latest understanding within the 21st century. And when you say, are scientists agreeing to this, I describe myself not as a physicist, because that implies just a physical universe, but as a cosmologist. So I'm curious about the nature of reality as a whole. And I would say more and more and more cosmologists are coming to this viewpoint, and more and more scientists at many, many different fields of research at the leading edge of what they're discovering are also discovering this as being a far more deeper, fundamentally deeper, profound way of describing the nature of reality. Than the old paradigm of materialism and separation. Um,

Jannecke Øinæs 15:03

I mean, you've had your experiences, and I've had my spiritual experiences, and I've been thinking, what if we started to give value to experiences, not just, you know, evidence? And I'm wondering, is there openness to that? Because, let's say, let's take psychedelic. I don't know if I pronounced that correct, ayah. Many spiritual people are trying out ayahuasca, and it's really hard to explain an experience like that, but it's obvious that people are having some spiritual experiences. And how can you explain such an experience when we don't have frame for that type of reality. So I'm curious, like, do you think there will come a time where we will also value people's experiences and going into that and yeah, as proof for certain, yeah, different things,

Dr Jude Currivan 16:02

absolutely. And I mean, you know, seven, six years ago, when my not my latest book, The Story of guy, which was published just last year, but in 2017 when my book The cosmic hologram, came out, I co founded something called whole world, hyphen view. And what we aim to do is to serve the understanding, but the experiencing and the embodying of unitive awareness. I think the issue before, relatively recently, was wasn't a model that supported those experiences, we had a model, a very narrow model that was that was sort of supported by the scientific evidence or the interpretation of the science at that point of a reality that was only materialistic, only made up of separate things, and where experiences were not part of it, they were they were pushed to the side, as was the nature of consciousness and mind, and as a result, those experiences were devalued. Now the emergent cosmology offers a framing, an underpinning that not only allows these experiences to be understood in this wider, multi dimensional understanding of the nature of reality, but they're natural. That's the point. They're natural, what I call super normal phenomena, not supernatural or paranormal, but super normal, such as telepathy, precognition, the experiences, the altered states of consciousness. Experience says that plant medicine can can help facilitate and initiate. They're all part of this, this new, ancient but evolutionary paradigm of wholeness, of unity in diversity, and that's why the experiential aspects of these, of this are so important. It's not that they supersede the science. It's just that the science is offering a description and underpinning a framing for which the vital experiential realization of this wholeness of our unity in diversity can be expressed and appreciated and valued and and offering us the wisdom of that deep relationship that healed relationship with a whole world, rather than a fragmented world, which is what our old paradigm has insisted we are part of, and is which now is being shown to be fundamentally flawed.

Jannecke Øinæs 18:55

I think we're living in, living in exciting times. And I think, Well, I started to become a primary teacher, and the teacher that taught us history, she was coming over to me, and she was like, you know, I know you do spiritual stuff, and there's so much more between heaven and earth, but, you know, I don't talk about it, but I've had my experiences, and people say that to me, you know, they don't dare to say it out loud. And also, I think a lot of people are experiencing things, and it was just right now, before I was meeting you, I was finding a thumbnail to this teacher, to this interview I had with her. I shifted her picture, and then all of a sudden, in my mailbox, there's an email from her, and I haven't spoken to her for a year or so, and that's what synchronicity and things like that happen all the time. And I think people who fall in love, you know, they can share stories about how they met in such magical ways. So I think that's really fascinating, is that your experience as well?

Dr Jude Currivan 19:56

Yes, and I love that you brought up synchronicities, because. For me, synchronicities. Synchronicities are always showers. And of course, in that old paradigm, they have no place, because they don't appear to have this causal, you know, A, B, C, linearity, but they don't violate universal reality. There's nothing in a synchronicity that violates the laws of physics, because it doesn't violate causality, but when we expand our understanding of the nature of reality is unified, as I mentioned earlier, within space time, nothing can go faster than the speed of light, great. Otherwise we would have causality, and it's not an either or, and our universe as a whole exists and evolves as a non locally unified entity, which means that Synchronicities are natural. They they bring into the here and now these wonderfully meaningful co incidences, which means they co inside. In other words, they come in this here and now. And the other superpower we have, the superpower we have is our intuition, because, again, we are inevitably, innately microcosms of the intelligence of our entire universe, so we can tap into its wholeness, its sentience, if we can, so take down the blinders that we often put up because of that old paradigm tells us that to realize that we are part of this incredible, not just interdependent, innately relational universe. We are microcosms of its wholeness, and that's where you know, plant medicine and and mindfulness and other practices can really help us to expand our awareness in this way. Before I before I finish, I just want to say something, because people might be thinking, Well, okay, maybe there's some evidence for this. Well, let me share with you. You know, the the cosmic hologram and the story of God are filled with the evidence for this at all scales of existence and across many fields of research. But one thing I've spoken mentioned a couple of times is our universe exists and evolves as what's called a non locally unified entity, in other words, as a wholeness. And this was a theoretical prediction coming out of quantum physics over 100 years ago, and at the time, there were no experiments able to prove it at all. It was just a theoretical requirement for quantum phenomena to be able to be what they are. And for many years, it was a thought experiment. And then in the 19 sort of 80s and onwards, experimenters were able to show that such non local coherence, and in what's called sometimes entanglement, was able to be expressed, not just at the quantum level, but ever larger scales, in The laboratory and between laboratories and in 2018 a group of experimenters were able to non locally entangle photons of light in a laboratory with starlight from 600 light years away and Light from an incredible active ancient galactic center 12 point 2 billion light years away, to show that that non locality extends 12 point 2 billion light years and therefore at cosmological scales. But in 2022, late last year, three scientists, three experimenters, Alan aspect, Anton zelinger and John Clauser were given the Nobel Prize for Physics for this work. Now, the Nobel Prize for Physics, as you probably well know, living in Norway, is only given for what's called settled science. In other words, science that is not contentious, that everybody agrees on, and it was given for this realization of universal wholeness, non locality, in 2022 and that, for me, was a major threshold, because this now is settled science. It's not conjecture, it's not conje it's not contentious. So all that I'm sharing and writing about is progressively ever more the compelling cosmology that you know, I share in my course, in my master class, and you know. Share in my books. But it's not just my cosmology, it's 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of leading edge researchers who have come to exactly the same perspective.

Jannecke Øinæs 25:13

This is so exciting. And you know, being Norwegian maybe it's natural, but I have not been thinking about that coincidences, stance, you know, have those two words, CO and incidences. I mean, that's amazing. And I remember Neil Donald Walsh also in his book communication with God, or communicating with God, split it up the word. Split up the word, always to all ways. And I love that. Like you, we don't think about that, but that's brilliant. So Jude, I heard an interview with you where you said something highly interesting. You said, we will remember our extraterrestrial and inter terrestrial heritage. I would love to go into that, because you've been speaking about multi dimensionality, I'm curious, do we have another heritage that is not so common, commonly, well known of

Dr Jude Currivan 26:13

I feel we have, personally, I feel we have. And what's been very exciting for me, and interesting for me is over the last few years, after so long, when the possibility, when I was at university, many, many years ago, astronomers, I would say, if you ask 100 astronomers, is there a likelihood of extraterrestrial life? Probably 99 out of the 100 would say, No. You might have the one brave soul who said, well, possibly, but there was no specific evidence. There is a, there is a an aspect of astronomy called EXO biology, which has been looking for the signs of extraterrestrial life for a number of years now, and gradually, more recently, exponentially, we've had the technology. And over the last few years, we've discovered 1000s of planets beyond our solar system that may well be able to harbor biological life. And for me, life is our entire universe. It goes way beyond biology. Ours is a living universe, but just with a focus on biological life, we're finding 1000s of planets that have the potential to nurture the evolution of biological life. In fact, as I write about in the story of Gaia, we now consider there to be more planets in our galaxy than stars. Planets are incredibly common. Now, not all of them can support biological life in our own solar system, it looks as though Mars and Venus, as well as our planetary home Earth, Gaia, were water planets from the from the beginning, Mars is too far out and too too small to hold on to the water. But you know, the pros we've sent are finding more and more evidence of very early water and possibly biological signatures. Venus is is too near the sun, and therefore has now become a very, very hot planet, but again, likely was a water planet. It looks as though the some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn have oceans beneath their icy surfaces, and we're starting to be able to, sort of, you know, identify that there may be life there. So probes in coming years may well show that at least simple biological organisms have been able to evolve there. So that's just in our solar system we look out and before planetary systems come into being as ours did over 5 billion years ago, there are interstellar clouds of gas and dust and ice, vast swathes of ice, vast amounts of what are called prebiotic molecules, complex carbon based molecules, which are the forerunners of biological organisms all there and so in our solar system, and likely many, many, if not all solar systems come into being, the Beginnings The possibilities to then nurture further complexity of biological organisms are there, ready to be delivered to new planetary systems such as ours. So when we talk about extraterrestrials, it seems to me, and it always has, from my own experience, because I've communicated with extra. Terrestrials or my life, is that now the science is catching up with that understanding, and I'll be very, very surprised if we don't have very direct evidence and contact potentially within the coming years, NASA, I don't know if you know NASA, have just started to report, after a nine months study of what they're now calling an identified Aerial Phenomena used to be called UFOs, but they're now extending it to below oceans. And you know, I really do think that we're on the threshold of Yes, realizing that we too are both human terrestrial, and our heritage is also extraterrestrial and intra terrestrial, in the sense that, of course, our bodies are made up from the body of Gaia. But also in my, you know, explorations, I've communicated with what we might call elemental realms and divic realms of Gaia all my life. And more and more and more people are doing this. Our indigenous brothers and sisters have continued to do it when so many of us have lost those relationships or forgotten those relationships, you know, to a shamanic society, they're just part and parcel of lived experience.

Jannecke Øinæs 31:35

Wow, fascinating. And I gotta ask, and I think my audience get very curious, about what kind of extraterrestrials have you been communicating? Because there's so many races there.

Dr Jude Currivan 31:47

There are. And you know, for me, it's been, for example, Syrians plead aliens, others. And you know, I my experiences is not that great. You know, I've only been doing it for 65 years, and, you know, I've spoken with a lot, but, but you know, our indigenous i when I've met, when I've had the honor of meeting indigenous wisdom keepers who have a continued lineage of those relationships, whether it be the African lineages or the Australian lineages. For them, the extraterrestrial relationships are just lived aspects of their wider relationships with with the whole world, with the whole universe.

Jannecke Øinæs 32:41

But do you think it's wrong that we have evolved from monkeys and apes, and that we've actually, you know, have evolved from extraterrestrials, that they've been here building pyramids?

Dr Jude Currivan 32:56

Well, I don't think it's proven that they built pyramids. And my, Jury is absolutely out. I mean, one of the things that I've, I've had as a sort of a North Star in my whole life, is to follow the evidence wherever it led. And, you know, my own experiences and my own experiences, and I'm not trying to impose those in on anyone else, but I have had my innate curiosity guided and invited and very, very often validated by the by the evidence. Yes, I mean, my goodness me, the whole story of Gaia, as I write about, is a story 13 point 8, billion years in the making, because our stories, the story of our universe, not just our planetary home, our entire universe. And you know, when I when our planetary home and our planetary solar system came into being 5 billion years ago from a nearby, you know, a nearby, a collapse of a nearby interstellar cloud of gas and dust and ice to form our planets. That enable, by being a water planet, enabled that ongoing nurturing from simplicity to greater levels complexity and the evolution of biological organisms. So, yes, the evidence is there that that entire, what has now been a 4 billion biological story led from, you know, single cell bacteria and and single celled organisms to multi cell to eventually to plants and fungi and all the incredible abundance of biological life that came to eventually monkeys and apes and us. I'm not denying that. I you know, I couldn't even begin to suggest that that wasn't what the overwhelming evidence is showing us. But it can be an end both and it can also. Be that extraterrestrials are also part of that story. And again, my jury is still out, and I feel that over these coming years, that understanding will show us one way or another. So I'm not trying to preempt that, but I'm saying it can be a both and and not just a guy and based without anything. I mean, for example, until a few years ago, the evidence was suggesting that in our the earlier story of how we evolved to be, you know, modern humans, that we had Neandertal cousins, and the idea was that our Neanderthal cousins died out and we went on. But we now know that between one and 4% of our DNA is Neanderthal, because our ancestors, not just co existed, but bred with our Neanderthal cousins. So there's a P, you know, an aspect of us, of our DNA and us, that is Neanderthal. And I love that. I'm just delighted by it. And when we look at the whole story of of our our modules, we are the only homonyms. We are the last of our kind in that regard. And yet, when we look over the last five to 6 million years, we find many other strands of our hominin relatives that have come to an end of their evolutionary arc, and yet they still, in that sense, and to some degree, still live on with us, and some of them in instances within our DNA, within the overall, you know, breadth of our DNA, so will we discover that perhaps there's an aspect of our DNA which may be traced to extraterrestrial I don't know, but it's possible.

Jannecke Øinæs 37:06

Very interesting. And yeah, speaking of going deep into the big topics, I'm fascinated by the three theory of multiple universes. I don't know if that's sort of proven yet, but people are speaking about it. What do you think about that? In your research? I don't understand how that is even possible.

Dr Jude Currivan 37:32

Well, there is so much, I think, conjecture, which is great, but there's also, I feel, also potential, a lot of misunderstanding about what that actually means. First of all, for a long time, it was assumed, without any evidence, that our universe was the only universe. Okay, point 1.2, that our universe was infinite. What we're now realizing is that, first of all, the evidence is becoming stronger and stronger that our universe is finite. It began a finite time ago, 13 point 8 billion years. But also in the work that I share, and the evidence I share in the story of Gaia and the sorry, the cosmic hologram of the story of Gaia, our universe as as as basically, from that point, as space has expanded and times flowed forward, our universe has been playing out a life cycle from simplicity to complexity to ever greater amounts of informational content. But the physics of that means, as we move forward, that a space continues to expand, it calls down, and the temperature of our universe is what's called inversely proportional to its informational content. So as it's progressed to more and more informational content, the temperatures dropped down and is now fairly close to absolute zero. It began incredibly hot, lowest information content, highest temperature. That process is a finite process of more information, lower temperature. So more and more cosmologists are coming to the perspective that our universe's life cycle, finite life cycle, may complete in billions of years. Now, what that does is it means that our universe, which we're also appreciating, is more of a great thought than a thing. So it's a thought form, a thought form and a finite thought form within an infinite internal Cosmos with an infinite and eternal cosmos. So that begs the question, are the. Other universes, if we have the mind of God, cosmic mind, as Einstein called it, Allah, great mystery, Great Spirit, as being infinite and eternal, and our universe being a thought form, a finite thought form. Are there other finite thought forms that we call universes. And that's potentially a a an aspect or a version, a version of a multiverse, yeah, where each universe and the thought form that it it embodies, it represents, it expresses, may have different principles of physics. They have different relationships. The one that I really do take issue with, though, is a version of the multiverse, which is a version called Parallel Universes, right? There's parallel universes, that notion came out of a realization of just how incredibly special our universe is. It began. We call it the Big Bang. It wasn't big. It wasn't a bank. We know it was tiny, but it was not a bang in the sense of chaos. It was incredibly ordered and in amazingly fine tuned, very, very, very special, which meant that it was able not just to exist, but to evolve from that innate original simplicity to ever greater levels of complexity. But so special is our universe that a notion came forward was that was based on randomness that could not acknowledge that essentially cosmic mind and consciousness innately imbue our universe with intelligence. Yeah. So if you're not accepting an intelligent, living, sentient universe coming out of a deeper, more fundamental levels of causation and as a thought form of an infinite, eternal, cosmic Cosmos, then the only other choice you have, really is to say there are infinite number of random universes. So every quantum aspect of our universe buds off into essentially an infinity of other universes. So they're an infinity, essentially of you and me, right? And that is something that is so violating a fundamental principle called Occam's razor and so violate, violating what Einstein said, which is that our universe is as simple as it could be, but no simpler to exist and evolve. What the parallel universes do is they throw everything up in the air, yeah, to actually avoid, avoid looking at the nature of consciousness.

Jannecke Øinæs 43:07

Ah, I see. And I don't think we have time to go into what consciousness is, because that's the usual topic. But I would love to hear, with all your experience. What do you think is the meaning of life, and why are we here?

Dr Jude Currivan 43:27

Well, that'll take us about 10 seconds, won't you? Well, I'd rather go back to our whole universe, because it's really clear. And this is what I feel the evidence as I'm sharing the books really lay out. If you look, our universe began in its most simple state, incredibly ordered, amazingly fine tuned, but simplest state. It literally embodied an impulse to evolve from simplicity to ever greater levels of individuated self awareness, complexity, diversity. So if I look of our overall universe, I would say the meaning of life, and I view our universe as innately living in its wholeness is to evolve, and it embodies an evolutionary impulse to do so that every step of the way is not about random occurrences, but this profound underlying intelligence and causation that is guiding this process, just as you know that what's called the HOX genes guide the in space and time, the the sort of development of a human fetus to be born and that baby, then to have, you know, rather like an acorn has the the oak tree held within it as as a potential, has that potential to evolve. So for me, the me. Thing is founded on a universe of meaningful purpose, to evolve and to evolve consciously, to evolve, to evolve as individuated, ever more individuated, diverse each unique expression of its universal sentience and consciousness into individuated, self aware consciousness and complexity. So that comes back to each and every one of us. So how do we express that universal meaning in our own lives, in our own Earth? Walk as micro, cosmic co creators of our universal sentience and evolutionary impulse. And for me, that is about creativity, that is about, you know, joy and gratitude, that is about the relationship that I have with not just everyone, but everything within, you know, our planetary home and our entire universe. And it's about not that I have it's not that I have a purpose, even it's that my very existence is purposeful. Because how can it not be when we are all microcosms of our purposeful, evolutionary, emergent universe? But it does invite me, and I feel it invites all of us to, you know, live in a way that fulfills our joy in being here, the abundance of our universe has gifted us this incredible opportunity. And so for me, it also involves, how can I serve the good of the whole and do so so love, joy and gratitude, you know,

Jannecke Øinæs 47:02

yeah, I love your message and perspective on it, just knowing that our life is so meaningful and purposeful in itself, I think that's so healing to come from that perspective, because a lot of people are searching for the meaning, you know, feeling that I need to have status, to have meaning, all these shallow things, and just to know that I'm purposeful, just by being alive, that there's I'm so loved, you know, just by being born, I'm so loved, there's so deeper meaning. Someone has loved me so much they, you know, created me, or I'm part of everything, and I'm just as valuable as you are, and anybody else that having that deeper acknowledgement of that, I think, just has helped me a lot. And I do believe that that, that that's the truth.

Dr Jude Currivan 47:53

I agree. I mean, I sometimes call this the Science of Love, because you know what? This is, sharing this, this emergent cosmology is a science of love. I think the other thing as well janeka is, you know, our universe expresses itself. It's unity and diversity. But I would suggest we can go beyond that, and go beyond unity and inclusion to unity and belonging. Because we belong. We belong to and with our universe we belong to and with our planetary home, guy, we belong to and with each other. Because, how could we not? How could we not? You know, at the beginning of the story of Gaia, I dedicate the book to everyone who's waking up to literally remember, we're inseparable. And yet unity is not uniformity, as I say. It's this incredibly radical, abundant diversity each of us, going back to to we are purposeful. Each of us is unique. Each of us is unique. You know, when our universe got to a point of its evolutionary impulse where atoms were becoming molecules. You know, each each atom, if you have an atom of hydrogen, each atom of hydrogen is pretty much the same as every other atom of hydrogen, but we get to molecules, and then we start to get this incredible amount of differentiation, and we go from molecules, and then we go into, you know, our planetary home, Gaia, her Geosphere, her minerals, her rocks, Her atmosphere, her waters and her biosphere, and that level of differentiation and complexity and uniqueness, unique, individuated expression within the wholeness, just because, oh, wondrous, absolute, wondrous, and yet each you. Leaf of every tree is different. Every snowflake is different. What does that tell us about our universe? Our universe is impulse. It's for life and for exploration and for evolutionary diversity and can't we then, in realizing we belong, that we come to celebrate that, to celebrate that together.

Jannecke Øinæs 50:35

Wow, it's been such a joy speaking to you, Jude. I mean, I feel like it's been five minutes and we've been speaking for 50 minutes, Time just flies, and I could speak for hours on this. Thank you so much for really doing this work, diving so deep, writing all these books, doing talks, interviews, sharing this, these messages. It's so important. So I'm very honored having you here today. Thank you so so much.

Dr Jude Currivan 51:02

Thank you, Jannecke. And I guess for me, what's really powerful is this offers us what I call a unitive narrative, because we're a story sharing species, and beneath our stories, there's a narrative, and the narrative has been one of fragmentation, separation. This is now offering us a unitive narrative to underpin and frame everything that we can do, because with a unitive narrative, we can heal. With a unitive narrative, we can link up and lift up together to transform the way and the ways we behave with each other, the way we organize together. Now this is such an incredible moment of potential and possibility, and to know that we're held and underpinned and frayed by unitive narrative, we can begin to share new stories.

Jannecke Øinæs 52:02

Yeah, and that's what my work is all about. I feel like I cannot do anything else. And you know that, that that unity coming from the heart, taking that long journey from the mind to the heart, and it is a journey we all have to take, that we can help each other with that, and that's why I continue doing these interviews, because it just feels so meaningful. So thank you again so so much Jude.

Dr Jude Currivan 52:28

thank you, Jannecke and and I, I'm so happy to be sharing this time with you and your community, because each of your community in their own unique way, as well as the whole can also reach out to link up and lift up together. We can go forward,

Jannecke Øinæs 52:46

indeed, and thank you for watching guys much light from England and Norway, bye, bye.