Decoding Astrology – From Destiny to Extraterrestrial Origins! With Debra Silverman

Debra Silverman 0:00

And that's the ETs. They're waiting in the wings for us to remember that they are, in fact, our descendants. They have been with us. They've inserted wisdom. They've been watching us across time, and they're scared of us. They're scared of us? There's no evidence in the human zeitgeist that we would meet an ET and go so glad to meet you. Literally, what happened is we go do science experiments on them. They don't feel like we're a generous kind species, like they said, no, no, no, we'll wait till you're desperate enough and things are really bad, and then you'll ask for us, and we'll come. The system that we've been using as astrologers in the west, it's so perfect that it couldn't be a human mind, because the human mind is so imperfect, so I can look at the chart and diagnose someone perfectly. Yes, astrology has been here for 1000s of years. It's a perfect system, and it is compassionate, it's healing, and it's there for you all to learn. But

Jannecke Øinæs 1:01

Do you want to cultivate a deeper sense of self love? Then I have self love toolkit for you where I help you boost your self love. Head over to wisdomfromnorth.com/selflovetips. Debra Silverman, a warm welcome to the show.

Debra Silverman 1:19

Thank you.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:21

I'm so honored to have you today. You are one of the world's top astrologers. You are a psychotherapist, a spiritual guide, a spiritual teacher, I would say, a psychic, an author, and now you're coming out with a new book "I don't believe in astrology", which I find is an interesting title, and we may get into that.

Debra Silverman 1:43

It makes me want to laugh,

Jannecke Øinæs 1:45

and I'm excited to dive into astrology today, and what he can tell us about the times we find ourselves in. And I would like to start by asking about that you're saying that astrology is medicine. And I was thinking, you're saying that maybe because you had your own traumas back in the days, with difficult relationships, broken relationships, that you have shared about and then in the 20s, you found astrology. So how come it is a medicine for the soul,

Debra Silverman 2:19

I think in the deepest wound of the human condition is a feeling of not being understood or not being seen, or not feeling loved, like that's kind of is a psychotherapist, when people come to see me, it's often something's wrong. This is how it all started. When I was in graduate school. I was studying astrology since I was very, very young, and when they would come in for their first session, my supervisor was there, and they would start by telling me everything that was wrong. I'd be looking at the chart, going, No, no, it's like, your chart, you've got a lot of fire. So you would come in and you'd say to me, oh my god, I have so much energy, and I want to perform and I want to sing and I want to dance and I want to throw my energy around, but life won't let me. And now I'm all this point. I'm like, hold on a minute. This is what you came in to do this life, to get your fire energy up, to be enthusiastic. And when people tell you you're too much or you're too loud, or you're too or life starts to shut you down, you've got to know how to come back to your center. And that's the medicine of astrology. It's understanding, yes, you've got a lot of fire, or Yes, I have a lot of air, or yes, you have a lot of water, you're so sensitive. Or yes, you have a lot of Earth. You're a workaholic. These personality traits aren't going away. So the medicine is, here's your permission slip. You're allowed to have a lot of fire. That's who you are. I'm allowed to have a lot. I can't change your character, but what I can do is provide the observer, the witness, the part of you that unders This is what astrology is. It explains our quirky personalities, because raise your hand if you have an ego. Oh, look, everyone's raising their hand, and then raise your hand if you're a little confused by yourself. Oh, that everybody's you're a little confused by what this personality came with. So I get to give people permission slips, and that becomes medicine like, Oh, you mean it's okay that I love to talk, and I can start to listen. In your case, it's okay. I have this desire to show up and be loud and enthusiastic and energetic, and I can find the off button. Really, I didn't even know that existed. So basically, the medicine of astrology is free will,

Jannecke Øinæs 4:19

right? And that is interesting, because I wanted to ask you how destined is our destiny? Because we have this blueprint. It's written in the stars, you know, we hear, and there is sort of a faith there for us. But how set in stone is it really?

Speaker 1 4:36

Well, no, that's set in stone. That's not moving. You're going to be double fire in our system. You're a double fire sign. You're going to have energy, but I couldn't tell you to turn down your chi, your excitement, your enthusiasm, you're singing, you're dancing your party like you are, really energetic. Is that true?

Jannecke Øinæs 4:50

Yeah, I am a singer,

Speaker 1 4:53

yeah, and that's a and that that, that energy you give out when you sing, and the whole room gets lit up, and we all get to be contagious. Your fire that you that wasn't something you can change. So that's destiny, that's fate, That's karma. That was the assignment you came in this lifetime. And what I do when I teach astrology is say, here was your assignment. You came in to perform. Then the person either says I'm performing, or the person says I was too scared to ghost on the stage, and I'm sitting on my fire, and I'm all frustrated. So we get to see, yes, destiny is written in the stars. You don't get a vote. You're you already signed that deal, you already made that contract. But the choice factor of whether or not you're going to do it, how you're going to translate the storyline, like, I love being fire, or I love being air, or I love being sensitive, or I love working, that's the variable.

Jannecke Øinæs 5:42

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm curious because I heard you said in another interview that astrology actually comes from extraterrestrials. And I know my audience is very interested in extraterrestrials, a lot of them, at least. And I've been so curious about that my whole life, not knowing why, but I'd love to go there.

Speaker 1 6:04

That's so cool. I also have a podcast, and my very favorite interview I ever did was with Steven Greer, Dr Steven Greer, who is the world's expert on this conversation, we became friends, and now we speak all the time. I have no doubt at all. I mean, I don't I didn't tell anyone, isn't it interesting how? Because I'm almost 70, so for much of my life, we never were allowed to talk about ETs or astrology. That was just considered ridiculous, which is why I titled the book. I don't believe in astrology, because if I had a nickel for all the times people said it same thing with ETs. Well, now it's without a question. There has been legitimate proof to the numbers of 1000s, he has 1000s of whistleblowers who are pilots, who are in the military, who are authorities, who say, I have seen them. I have seen them in person. So there's no more debate. Thank God we've moved through that era. Yes, and did astrology come with an intelligence that is mine. Like every single time I do a chart, every like yours. I looked at your story, your bio, I looked at your chart, I was like, of course, she's double fire, and she came in this life to have to deal with life, telling her to stop singing, and then her having to reclaim and heal. That is such a classical fire story. They come in young, and they're singing Annie, and they're all over the world, the people, and then all of a sudden something happens. This is how life goes and it shuts them down. So that's airtight, and that was put in place by ETs. I'm convinced. I don't usually say, but now I can that the intelligence is so advanced and the system is so airtight. The system that we've been using as astrologers in the West is, I have it all over my walls. It's so perfect that it couldn't be a human mind, because the human mind is so imperfect. And that's the first half of my book. The first half of my book is, you can't get it right down here. You're supposed to get it wrong. You're supposed your voice is supposed to break. I'm supposed to be self conscious, I'm supposed to be insecure, I'm supposed to be scared, I'm supposed to be depressed. All those are symptoms of the human condition. To overcome them. So though no one tells you when you get here, they should say to us, you're going to have a really hard time your family and your story and your body and something's going to break. But don't worry if you wake up inside the dream and you become conscious, you turn on your observer. You go, Oh, I remember I signed up for this. And that's the ETS. They're waiting in the wings for us to remember that they are, in fact, our descendants. They they are the beings who inserted and have been with us. They've inserted wisdom. They've been watching us across time, and they're scared of us. There's because the humans think of every film you've seen, the ET film, he ends up being killed. There's no evidence in the human Zeitgeist that we would meet an ET and go so glad to meet you. We would take their their literally. What happened all across time. When the ETs land is we go do science experiments on them. They don't feel like we're a generous kind species. And they come here, specifically during nuclear when fifth area 51 was first found, it was because the ETS came there, and this is what Steven talks about. It was riddled with nuclear energy, and bombs were being made there, and they came to watch because they're worried about us. Why? Because we're destructive, but they can't come face to face with us because we're destructive. What would we what would we do if they came down and said, You guys, you're not doing this properly? There's another way to get free energy. There's another way to do time travel. There's another way to be kind to each we'd be like, Wait, What'd they say? Do you think they're right? Let's put them into a registered we need to give them legislation. We gotta put them through the government. We gotta, like they said, no, no, no, we'll wait till you're desperate enough and things are really bad, and then you'll ask for us, and we'll come.

Jannecke Øinæs 9:58

Yeah, so astrology has probably been around for eons, right?

Speaker 1 10:04

Oh, it's the it's, it's in Egypt. You can see in all the hieroglyphics I'm about to go to Egypt. It's one of my long lost dreams, because this is where it began. And yes, it was brought, it shows, was brought to us by ETs. I never talk about this, but it's truth brought to us by ETs, inserted into the architecture of every human you meet. Like I can look at your chart and go your Gemini rising. You start things and you don't finish. You get all excited. You forget where you're going. You are the person that has the gift of the gab. You're so curious you don't even what you were asking about. You got that you've got the most fascinating soul, because the rising sign is your soul and yours is Gemini. So you're like, interested in everything, so I can look at the chart and diagnose someone perfectly. Yes, astrology has been here for 1000s of years. It's a perfect system, and it is endearing, it's compassionate, it's healing, and it's there for you all to learn. But here's the but the mind doesn't have the will to actually include the notion of ETs and astrology and magic until you're hungry enough, and you raise your hand and go, I'd like to learn. But until that moment, the human dimension, for some reason, it's arrogant and scared and insecure. It doesn't come with confidence in our package. Some people, like you, did you, we are able to stand on the stage and you can command the room, and you're an Aries Leo, you're double fire, so you're capable. You're built for the job. For someone else, that's like getting a bite from a dog. Public Speaking for some people is the scariest thing in the whole world, but not for you and me, because we have the fire and air elements. So the point is, there's a system put in place from a long time ago, brought to you by ETs. I'm so glad we can say that now we are in the Aquarian Age. It's free and willing for us to accept it, but the past memories and the unbelievable inheritance and the trauma of any witch that decided to talk about magic is so built into our unconscious, it requires us to stand up and say, This is my favorite mantra that was then, this is now. So we can come into current time 2025, where the Aquarian Age is here, and say, Oh, we can talk about ETs, and your whole audience is interested. It makes me so happy.

Jannecke Øinæs 12:24

Yeah, it feels it feels really good, because I started this channel in 2012 there was not much openness. And I remember a girlfriend of mine at that time were like, do you really believe in ETs? Like, I can't take you serious anymore, Jannecke, and I was, like, stunned. I didn't know what to say, and I was thinking, okay, Time will show. Time will show.

Debra Silverman 12:53

So interesting. She said that to you, and now, now, what's your experience?

Jannecke Øinæs 12:59

Well, it's an openness, and it's coming out all over the place. And people who have been skeptic are open, and I just see what's happening with my boyfriend, who was a skeptic, and now he's, he's involved with wisdom from north and he's opening up. And it's happening all over the place with people who usually were not, you know, were very skeptical, and, and, and it's typical when they they say, like, your title of the book, I don't believe in this. But then they say, you know, Oh, can you tell me something about this would happen? What do your channelers say? And, yeah,

Speaker 1 13:36

so it's the result of an old system. In the old system, because that was the Piscean age. That was the last 2100 years. It just changed. We don't even know the exact demarcation of when it changed, but I suggest that the 60s, when there was six planets in Aquarius, in the 1960s it opened up the mind to the Aquarian Age. And there was this alteration that's continuing to evolve, and people are being more and more open, but that's called evolution. Like we were once unable to ever imagine being in cyberspace, and I'd get to talk to you all the way across the world, and I'm in Hawaii, like, who, what, where, and now we take it for granted. So good news you guys. We're growing and and the evolution is a good thing, and it may be awkward, or you may have to argue with your friends or feel slighted because they're not there yet, and you become the way showers people listening to podcasts like this, you're the ones that get to say, I just heard an astrologer. Make sense out of astrology. It's not so weird anymore. It's simply four elements, water, air, earth and fire. Nothing in this reality can exist without water or air or earth or fire, we can't survive. So if those are the four principles that exist, I call them the four wheels on a car. If one of them's down, the whole thing goes off. If that's the simple belief, simple entrance to understanding astrology, then, well, there's a beginning. Said the thing. Therapist, just get to know the four parts of yourself. That's in my first book, called the missing element. There's a little there's no astrology in my first book, there's just a little test, and you find out which of the four elements are missing, and then you cultivate that, and suddenly you're back online. So there's simple, basic, don't have to go into Woo. Woo. Believe in ETS or astrology. You do believe you need water. No one's going to argue. You can't live without breath. You have to have food every day. And that red blood that bumps out of your heart, that's fire. You can't do anything without that. So these are essentials that suspend the non believers, but once they get in the door and they start realizing how realizing how true it is, that's when the fun begins. I love having people's boyfriends show up for my classes and they don't believe anything, and then they're like, How did she know me? That's crazy.

Jannecke Øinæs 15:55

Yeah, it is fascinating. Now, you spoke about the personality, and I know that you've looked at my chart, so we come in with a personality type. But what about destiny, points and things that are going to happen is that also very destined and set in stone, like I'm going to meet my fiance, I'm going to one day have this epiphany that I'm going to interview people about spiritual matters and the big questions of life, like, is that set in stone,

Speaker 1 16:27

like, what happened to you in 2009 that would have been an interesting turning point in your life. I would imagine, did something happen? ,

Jannecke Øinæs 16:35

Oh I was in the this, this big TV show in Norway, so I got a big part, so I became quite recognized in Norway, and I had this challenging relationship.

Speaker 1 16:48

Yeah, so just stop right there. So let's start with the first one. So destiny came and put you on a TV show that's called the Destiny line, and I pointed right to that moment. So that's called astrology. That's called Saturn Return. It's inevitable that during Saturn Return, destiny will come to your house and say, You come with me. I'm going to put you in a challenging relationship, and I'm going to give you this job, and then we'll see what you're made out of, like we'll see how you do and then the tests begin, because that's the nature of this reality. We learn by getting it wrong. How many relationships have we had that had to go wrong till we got it right?

Jannecke Øinæs 17:20

True, true.

Speaker 1 17:22

So law. So these are the principles that are in place. It's in the beginning of my book, there's some basic laws about reality you need to know. And Saturn Return is definitely one of them. Saturn Return is at 29 years old. Then another one happened to you in 2015 you remember that one,

Jannecke Øinæs 17:43

2015, 10 years ago? Well,

Debra Silverman 17:51

health issue? No, nothing happened.

Jannecke Øinæs 17:53

I cannot remember. No, okay,

Speaker 1 17:56

and then yes? Well, there's these seven year markers, without going into detail with your chart, just to say to your question, yes, there is destiny. There is timing. Astrology is all about timing. It's so much fun for me when I get to look at someone's chart and tell them like, Oh, here's a big change, like next year for you 2026, when Saturn enters Aries, because you are in Aries, there's going to be a very strong invitation for you to cultivate discipline that will be 2026 you'll feel it. You'll feel it as soon as the new year begins next year, and it'll be easy. Like, why do I feel so ready to change my diet or get exercise or upscale my business? So there are windows of time. Yes, said the astrologer that I can predict. Like I knew my book was coming out, and I didn't mean to tell the truth, destiny comes and she does her thing, and then the astrologer says, oh yeah. Well, that's funny that happened. It's not like I planned. I didn't plan it. I wrote a book, and I'm seeing now in my chart that there's a very positive, energetic occurring on my career when the book comes out. Now I've been scared, like, will it be successful? Like, does anybody want to read it? But if I look at my chart, there's a clue that says the winds will be in your sails. Like, don't worry, you're on that flow state. And so knowing that it really confirmed or gave me confidence. And that's the gift of astrology. There's certain cycles where everything goes quiet and we go internal, and it's an era of our life where we have to be and then there's times where everything starts picking up, and it's very predictable.

Jannecke Øinæs 19:30

Hey guys, I want to jump in here to give my thanks for being part of the wisdom from North community. Your support and engagement means the world to us. We put so much passion, so much love into these episodes. And my intention is really to be part of this great shift of consciousness, to do what I can do with this channel, to help people expand their consciousness, love themselves more, follow their purpose and shine their light. It. So if you haven't yet subscribed, I would love for you to do so. Thank you so much. You'll find the link somewhere here below. And now let's go back to the episode. Now I want to jump over to the Age of Pisces and the Age of Aquarius. From what I thought, I thought the Age of Aquarius was like, way into the future, actually. And then I felt more and more started to talk about, it's here, and all of a sudden I was like, Is it here now? I thought it wasn't like, 1000 years or 200 years. Are you do you mean that it's here now? Or are we moving like, this is the very beginning of this new age.

Speaker 1 20:44

That's a great question. There's no demarcation. I can't say to you. It'll happen on January 2, 2027 there's a we can feel it because AI is present. That's an Aquarian Age. ETs are present. That's an Aquarian astrology is being spoken about the Enneagram, the gene keys, the human design, all these systems are coming into our awareness, many ways for us to consider, and we are looking at a radical departure from a patriarchal world. So that's a gradual that's not like on you know, May 3 the Aquarian Age will be here. So to your point, is it fully here? Absolutely not. Do we sense it? Can we see for our children? I have children will? Will I imagine their children will have different devices than we have like I often imagine that when someone's telling me a story, I absolutely believe this will happen coming soon to your neighborhood, they'll tell their story about when they were on stage singing Annie, and then all of us will see you as a little girl, and we'll have we'll close our eyes, and we'll be able to go back to that time and see the little version of you, and we'll be able to teleport through time, because that's what the ETs do. But we don't have the technology yet. Coming soon to your neighborhood, Aquarius age will arrive, and they'll just like, if I would have said to you, there'll be a button machine sitting in front of you where you can go anywhere in the world and talk to anybody in their picture. But we'd be like, come on. Or there's this thing called Google. And in Google, you ask the question, and it answers you immediately. No more libraries. You'd be like, that's crazy. Yeah, Google. Will be able to see through people's lives and go into their memories and be able to embody virtual realities that are not limited to this time zone.

Jannecke Øinæs 22:32

Is, is that in our lifetime,

Speaker 1 22:35

such a great question? You're such a Gemini. Gemini rising, loves to ask questions. I don't I'm 70, so I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. I think we are first of all, before we get to the cool part, we have to dis it's disassemble, like, really break down, deconstruct the government structures that are creating so much pain. We have to first take care of the basics, and we've gotta break before we heal. So we're breaking that's the beginning of a new age when things start to go whoa, like, if you look back to the Greeks and the Romans and Egypt, every time a colonel, Empire went up, the Empire went down. Well, America's going down now, and that will affect the whole world, and everything will dismantle as we knew it. And that's scary, but here's the good news, it always works out. Life always survives. The earth will be fine. She'll probably be relieved to have 8 billion people all talking at the same time. It's a little annoying. She will survive, but we will go through this transition, and it's not easy.

Jannecke Øinæs 23:47

Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I speak about the shift of consciousness to people who are not into spirituality, I'm saying but, but look around and see what's happening in the world. You've never seen anything similar, have you? And people are like, Yeah, this is a special time. Like, I've never thought I would see that or that. I mean, we're surprised every time we turn on television in Norway, it's like, what is going to happen today?

Debra Silverman 24:14

I have a lot of students from Norway. It's fun for me in our school. My School's International. It only opens twice a year, in January and September, two times and we get it's wonderful to have international students come, because the cool thing about astrology is it transcends any cultural line. Everyone is affected by the stars.

Jannecke Øinæs 24:35

So what can you say about what the stars are showing us about these years. Some are saying that it's a period of eight years, or towards 2030, 2032, that things are going to get better, but it's like we're in the midst of it. How can you explain that? Astrological wise?

Speaker 1 24:59

So, um. What's so interesting is right now, this year 2025 the outer planets, from Pluto, the furthest one out, to Neptune, to Uranus, to Saturn, are all changing signs. I don't know if you've heard this yet. This has never happened before in the history of astrology, we've never seen it before that all the outer planets change in one year. So 2025, is this Like, like, just what you said, like, every day we're like, now what happened? Like, oh my God. What happened? And that, you know, just because America takes up so much air time, I don't know why we have the anyways, that's one story. But so many countries there is real concern. I heard in I did an interview with someone in Sweden, and she said that I couldn't believe this, that one day everywhere, every single home in Sweden, an envelope, an orange envelope, came to her house that said, preparing, what you do need to do to prepare if a bomb was dropped. I was like, what? So obviously, because they're close to Ukraine, and they're close to where these wars are. They're being prepared. When did that happen? Last Oh, that's right, whenever the world wars. Whenever this intensity builds, there's some indication that something needs to change. Well, this year, a lot of things are going to need to change, and that you're right till 2032 we're in that very bumpy, uncomfortable it's it's a time when I'm trying to talk to myself and saying, Deb, get used to change. Stop attaching yourself to comfort, because I am a comfort creature. I like to do the same over and over again. I'm one of those people that does the same walk, needs the same food, listens to the same music, and now I'm like, Uh oh, I can smell change. And it's my responsibility as an elder to be willing to accept that, yes, we are in transition. All the planets are screaming. We are entering a new era. And the first evidence on November 19 in 2024 Pluto entered Aquarius, and then this words of AI and et became popular. Those are two Aquarian words.

Jannecke Øinæs 27:07

Yeah, interesting, yeah. I definitely see a change in politics here in Norway, much more focus on defense and and also a lot of fear about the finances and people are selling and not having so much money in stocks and more, like in banks like to have security. So it's interesting. I'm super curious every day what's going to happen,

Speaker 1 27:33

and that's the result of the planet. So you're right. So so, just so you all know nothing's wrong. We're in change. It's I always make the analogy that if you have ever seen a woman give birth in that process at nine months leading up to it, you're like, something's weird. What's that thing on her tummy? Why she throwing up and she looks strange, and what is that thing doing? It's growing. Should we do? We take it off? No, no, no, no, let's trust the process. Now we're in so that's been going on for several years. Now we're in the birthing room and we're hearing her screaming, which is what we're all hearing, something's wrong, but then there's the midwives going, No, no, no, can you just sit down? This is a very natural process. It's evolution, it's birth, and then suddenly she's giving birth. And now we're like, if there's not a midwife or a why somebody in the room that knows what's happening, we would all be in terror. And that's not true. There's nothing wrong. And out comes this beautiful baby, if there are people available to be wise enough to take a deep breath, to calm down, to trust the stars, the sun's coming up tomorrow like it's totally dependable. It's 100% dependable. The moon and this, all those planets are perfectly moving. They never change. That's why I love them. They're perfect across all time. So there's some things we can trust.

Jannecke Øinæs 28:54

So are you saying, in a way, that this is divinely orchestrated

Speaker 1 28:59

100% there's nothing wrong. It's just unfortunate that the human mind does not have the ability to meditate, to come to peace, to reach calm when there's stress, it quite the opposite. We get anxious, we get nervous, we get caught in fear. So it's unfortunate that's the first half of my book is the human condition based on our design faults of the brain have to be trained, just like you have to be trained to believe in ETS or astrology. At first it's like, What do you mean? What do you mean? The sun influence. It's 93 million miles away, and you're in Aries, because, huh? And then as it goes on and you start studying, you're like, Whoa. And that's when the mind becomes trained, and it becomes obedient, and it starts to serve the soul, not confusion and the ego. So if your mind is wrapped up in your ego, you're scared, you're confused, you don't feel safe, you're worried, all of that is the mind going and if. You contain it or become friends with it and put it in its seat and say, Can you listen to some podcasts where you feel faith and safety and calm? Let them become your practice, especially meditating. I mean, you can meditate for you guys, five minutes a day to start with, just put it on your phone. Put a little ringer on and it tells you, okay, now today, for five minutes, I'm going to put my mind in a seat and say, and see if I can find the calm. Now that becomes 10 minutes. Now I found 10 minutes a call, and then I got half an hour, and it felt so good. And then I got an hour, and then when I got up, this has taken me years just to admit I'm not a good meditator, because I'm a Gemini like you will be wiggle we are people that have too much energy. We're like, what are you going to sit down? Do nothing. That's what you want to do. You're going to meditate. I sit like, don't and you get no results, by the way. In the beginning, in fact, it's kind of noisier. And then eventually you find said the elder, oh, I am the peace Bringer. I know this place. I call it the observer, where I can step off for a minute and notice that the planet's changing. Nothing's wrong. We're getting more open minded. We're listening to face reading podcasts. I mean, they're so interesting. I love

Jannecke Øinæs 31:22

Yeah, so are we helped? I mean, all of these things are happening, yes, and we have the meditation tool, but still, is consciousness itself like collectively changing so that humans are actually changing themselves without knowing it, or do we have to do the work in order to be ready for the Aquarian Age?

Debra Silverman 31:51

You know the answer?

Jannecke Øinæs 31:56

Well, I would say actually both. I do think that our consciousness is changing, but I do think also there is a choice there.

Debra Silverman 32:09

Rupert Sheldrake won a Nobel Peace Prize for a word called the morphogenic field. Have you heard of that? The morphogenic field suggests, to your point, that enough people wake up and they start to do a behavior like meditation or yoga. Good, a good one would be yoga. When I grew up, you know, in the 50s, I grew up. I was born in the 50s, and by the 80s, they brought yoga. And I was like, What are they doing? What is that funny thing? Like, they're gonna what lying on the ground? They're gonna do pretzels. It just looks so weird to me. And then it became a billion dollar industry that's called the morphogenic field. Then your grandmother knew downward dog. If you say the word, you know, we're going to do shavasana, they all go, okay, like, how do we that became part of the morphogenic field across time, the collective consciousness absorbs something, integrates it, and it becomes part of our system. So yes, astrology is that astrology got left behind. There was a time all across time. There's astrology books since words were written. I mean, it's that old. So it's been in the zeitgeist, who got left behind, and now we're bringing it back, and it's lightening us up. It's lightning. It lights me up every day, and it gives me the faith to know that if the sun is perfectly positioned, if the sun were 10% closer, not 93 million miles away, but just 10% different, it would be too cold or too hot, but it's been perfectly positioned in the exact position in this universe to allow us to live a life where we can go outside every day and be able to tolerate the temperature the air is perfect. Balance of pH, balance of how it goes through everybody's lungs, a perfect I mean, if you stop for a minute and think about the miracle of your body, your heartbeat began at conception in your mother's womb, and it will continue to the very last day. It like who thank you so much every single day, all day long, your heart is beating. These are miracles, but because we don't have the the collective Zeitgeist in the humbled spiritual practice of praying and giving thanks and remembering how grateful we are. We get sleepy, but we're waking up now, and you're helping us

Jannecke Øinæs 34:30

well. Thank you. Definitely you as well. So is Earth. Maybe this is common knowledge. I don't know. I don't know too many of these things, but it is Earth and our solar system actually moving across the galaxy in a way, and that's also why we're shifting our consciousness.

Speaker 1 34:52

Yes, that's called Very good. You're so intuitive. It's called the Kali Yuga. The Kali Yuga is an Indian Vedic system. Um, that works in 26,000 year cycles, and it's constantly moving. Everything's moving. If you ever go to a planetarium, which is one of my favorite places to go, you're in the dark, you're looking up and you're seeing everything is moving. I raised my hand, I said, Does it ever stop? They were like, never. So yes, we're all moving in the Kali Yuga is a 26,000, year cycle where it goes up and it goes down. They can detect it. They can produce it. It's also the Mayan calendar. Also did this. There was a calendar put in place by brilliant minds, the same minds, the same ETs that did astrology and what they're saying to us. Yes, we are in a transition, and without a question, we're coming into the golden age. But to your point, there's this threshold between now and 2032 that is the birthing canal, where, if they're not midwives in the room who are wise, we're going to think something's desperately wrong.

Jannecke Øinæs 35:53

So how would you say consciousness is different from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius? Like, what was the Age of Pisces about? And what is the Age of Aquarius about?

Debra Silverman 36:04

Great question. So the Age of Pisces was both Bucha Mohammed, all three of them, Bucha Muhammad and Christ. And it was the era. Let's use Christ as the example. Everybody was supposed to agree on the same religion. They're supposed to follow the leader they were living in whether it was a sangha or a temple or a church, everyone lived in community, and they all abided by the same principles, and they didn't like the ones that didn't agree with them. So you had to be part of their group, and you had to get married with people they chose that you would marry. And you had to stay in your village, because you couldn't leave the village. If you left the village and went somewhere else, they think you were think you were banished. Why aren't you with your village? So you couldn't if you didn't speak the language, or you weren't part of the other culture, you weren't welcome. So we lived in a Piscean age of follow the leader, let them choose your wife and your husband. You don't have much free will, and you're devoted to God, and it was very, very religious. Think about it, all those religions, all those Buddhists doing their Omani pani om, all those Hebrews sitting in temples repeating the same prayer every single year. They still do it. It's 5000 years later, and they do the exact same prayers every single Saturday. Then the Aquarian Age came and said, I don't wanna, I don't wanna go to church. I don't want to be with that family. I don't want my mom picking my husband. I don't want to and for the first time in the history of our consciousness, rebellion started and independence started, and do it yourself started. And that's why I think the 1960s were the marker, because that was the era where people were all taking drugs, ending their marriages, throwing away their bras, not agreeing with the government. There was so much revolution that occurred, and that was my indication as a collective, because it's Corona to your point, it's an evolutionary giant movement that doesn't just happen overnight. So the Piscean age was follow the leader. Be the good girl boy, be part of the group. Do not disagree. Go to church, sing the songs, and don't think for yourself. You were part of the group and you're supposed to be that part. Then came and Jesus. Message was so brilliant. Turn the other cheek, don't argue, don't fight, just love. It was a beautiful opportunity didn't work. Then came the Aquarian Age, and now we're in it, and this is just the entrance of it. When we have these crazy little devices, this is the Aquarian Age. So now we have these little devices, and we have computers in cyberspace became a word, and Google became a word, and I everything, iPhone, I and all of a sudden it's the individual. Oh, I don't have to go to church. I don't have to do it my peer. I can move. I can leave my town and my family and find a different family that was never acceptable in the Piscean age. I don't even have to get married. What you did not get a vote. So we're in a free will zone, and we take it for granted because there's so much free will, the choices are like, Oh, where should I live? We can go anywhere. Well, that's a big question. We didn't used to ask that question. So the introduction of modern civilization, including airplanes, we couldn't fly. I live on an island that if you drive an hour from here, you're on the other side of the island, but I everyone goes, Oh, you're going to the North Shore. Like you guys, it's an hour drive, but in Hawaiian culture and in the olden days, that was a three day trip. Cars only got here in this century, the 1900s so there's in the collective association to the Zeitgeist and the underbelly is you're going across to the North Shore. I think it's so funny when I hear it, are you going to sleep there, like what? But that's what we have. We don't remember it, but we remember it. All we remember is we had an era where we were bound. We were locked down. You were not allowed to be gay. You were not allowed. To leave your marriage. You are not allowed. You can't, we can't remember, but if we future pace into the Aquarian Age, anything goes.

Jannecke Øinæs 40:09

Anything goes, that's a musical,

Speaker 1 40:13

yeah? It was a musical called hair. That's when the 60s came out.

Jannecke Øinæs 40:16

Yeah, by the way, that's my thing. So in a way, the contrast is following a leader and then following your own leadership, within being the leader yourself, yeah,

Debra Silverman 40:32

and it's creating chaos, because to support the Piscean age, there was a time when the spiritual practices were so well grained. It was so familiar tradition. Tradition like it was built into the system. And now the Aquarian Age comes and tradition is out the window. There are someone that like, I have a memory of going to my grandmother's house where she made chicken soup every Friday night of my entire childhood. And I mean, every Friday night. We don't do that for my I don't do that for my grandkids. It's gone. So the good news is we have freedom. The bad news is we lost some very simple values that had to do with family, that had to do with staying the course. And so everything comes with a mixed blessing. If you're a meditator, if you're willing to do the spiritual work, you take a deep breath, you turn on your observer, and you go, Oh, isn't this interesting? We're in such a big change. I think I'll be the one that helps. I'll be the calm one.

Jannecke Øinæs 41:37

Didn't you say that evolution is a choice?

Debra Silverman 41:41

To your I love your question. Your boyfriend's going to get influenced because you're contagious. He cannot not be influenced by your fascination with all things. So did he choose it? Not really. It's an evolutionary arc because he's sleeping next to you. On the other hand, you and I, we chose it. There's a choice factor that we are the leaders of this consciousness movement. We're breaking new ground. You're talking about ETs before anybody wanted to hear about it. So you're, you're you're an Aries, you're fire, you're breaking new ground. I also have Aries in my chart, but for the people that don't have that, they'll come with us slowly. It won't be a choice, it'll be a circumstance and introduced it, and then eventually, there does come a moment when you have to make a choice, is my life committed to spirituality or not?

Jannecke Øinæs 42:29

Okay? So, so is that a choice in for all of us in this incarnation, because of this time,

Debra Silverman 42:38

that's called karma, that's called merit. If the merit of a lifetime, if in this lifetime, you're you guys are really doing your work, which is first, it's water. Do I have stillness in my emotional body? Most people don't have water. Done. Water is the one element in our system that we can't drink anymore. It's in plastic bottles. It's been chemical. People put chemicals in the water. So that first element of our system in the human condition has been diminished, but the high road of water is meditation, dreams, intuition, studying magic, being interested in your feelings, letting your real instinct, your body, speak to you. That's the high road of water. Second one error. Error is at the highest level, what you and I are doing, asking the questions, Gemini, being so curious. Airheads, many ideas, always open minded, always fascinated. The low road is, I'm so confused I can't remember where I'm going. I get so. So this is the part of the low and high road of every element will determine your choice factor and your evolution. If you're someone that's confused easily, take too many classes, you don't follow through, you have set certifications and way too many things, but you're not really doing it. If you're someone that starts relationships and ends them, or you don't want to date ever again, you're sick of people. This is all air element, good or bad, the wisdom of air is turning on your observer and going, Oh, my mind is going nuts right now. I think I'm moving too fast, and that becomes observant, that the wisdom of water is, Oh, I'm getting too emotional. I'm getting lost in my feelings. I feel swamped. I'm so moody. And my observer comes on and goes, put that down. And you become the Free Will zone, and that's consciousness in the earth element. The low road is I work all the time. They're not even listening to this podcast because they're working. I work all the time. I have to make money. I've got things to do. I've got to clean. I've got to get myself organized. I got the spreadsheets. I got the Excel spreadsheets. I know how to the earth. People love practicality so much so they overwork, they get exhausted and they're grumpy. That's the low road. The High Road is I love my work. I love serving people. I love to share my wealth, and I love to cook and make home meals so people can come over and see what it's like to really eat natural foods. Now that's different than I. Why am I always cooking? Why am I always paying for everything? Why do I have to work so hard? Why am I always doing the dishes so earth people at the low level complain, and that's the consciousness to your point is, how do I get to the high level? Oh, I whistle while I work. I say I want to do the dishes because I hate the way you do them. And I say that I want to help you with those spreadsheets because you don't know how to do them, and I love to help you. It changes the narrative When consciousness is there as a choice, and then last is fire. I love to perform. I want all the attention. I love being on stage. I love being on TV. I love all this, except I really feel self conscious because I'm taking up too much space. Am I being too much? Am I too big? Am I too loud? Do you like me really? Because I keep getting caught by all this energy and I can't find the off button. That's the low road of fire. They're opinionated, they're blunt, they say things they don't mean. They argue. And the high road is you. You use your ability, your performer, your wisdom, your collective of your audience, to take us to consciousness when the fire person has a cause and they're doing it for the right not for their ego, not for the applause, not because they want the money, but because they really have a spiritual cause. That's the high road of fire. So all of the elements you can see, consciousness, yes, is a decision, and I have a lot of compassion for the people that choose to be lazy, tired. They've given up. They don't like it here, you know, they feel like it's scary, like, you know, this planet is not on our side, for some reason, we're on the wrong and then there's the people that are super glib. They don't even notice anything. I kind of wish I was like them. Sometimes me too, and they're not watching this podcast, and they don't really care, and they're having fun. I don't know what they do. And I mean, they go through the I know they do social media. They scroll,

Jannecke Øinæs 46:57

yeah, yeah. That occupies a lot of time and attention in the head, and I can really notice how what it does to me, how addictive it is, and it's scary. It's like my hand is reaching out it I'm like, I'm watching something else. Why do I reach out to my cell phone when I'm doing something else? Like, I'm starting to observe what I'm doing? Like, what am I

Speaker 1 47:19

that's called, that's called the observer. That's why you are conscious. It's the most single important ingredient, you guys. This is in both of my books. If you can turn the observer on and say to yourself, Why am I grabbing the phone? That's the most important step. Cuz once your awareness is on, you're going to turn to your partner or your friend or to us and say, Why do you grab your phone and then we're all going to go, yeah, thank you so much for saying that, because it puts our awareness on. And I am in prayer every day my life is about. Let me have my awareness on. Keep me awake. Don't let me fall asleep in this movie. Humble me, but don't hurt me to my tell life, don't, don't scream at me if I'm getting it wrong, gently tell me, and I'll know by the evidence of what occurs. So all of us, it's so beautiful. You're You're such an example of a passionate quest seeker who wants us all to wake up and have fun. Mm, hmm, that's really what. It's so beautiful.

Jannecke Øinæs 48:17

It is definitely in my destiny. I think because I heard from my brother, he said a lot when I was young, like you asked me so many questions. I was watching a movie, and I was like, why is this going there? Why is that happening? It's like, could you shut up?

Speaker 1 48:33

That's Gemini rising. That's your soul. So can we just have an astrology moment? Your son is in Leah is in Aries. So you've got strong male energy and your physical and you're assertive. Your Moon is in Leo, it's the performer, it's the hairdo, it's the cameras, it's the entertainer. And then your your soul, the rising sign is the soul. That's why it's called Rising or ascendant. It's the same word, and yours is Gemini, and that's the questionnaire. That's the one that's inquisitive, that's the one that's so nosy, that's the one that's so curious, that's the one that goes, Excuse me, that's your soul's purpose is life. It's the podcast host

Jannecke Øinæs 49:10

that makes sense. And what I found really interesting is that you said in another podcast that what surprised you the most, or a lot in your chart, or when you saw learned more about yourself through astrology was that you actually are an introvert, and I'm too

Debra Silverman 49:30

No one knows they

Jannecke Øinæs 49:35

can't. They're like, No, you're not. I'm like, Yes, I am. And when I look at you, I'm like, is she an introvert?

Debra Silverman 49:43

Yes. So, so there's people who are so comfortable, and they get energy from being around people, and then there's other people that get energy from being alone, and it's so and you know who you are. So I have, I'm probably a cross breed, because I am a Gemini, so I can probably go. Ways, so to speak, and if I don't do my recovery and have that time to pray, I've discovered I think about this sometimes no one ever told me in my lifetime that I was here to pray. That's why I love doing podcasts. No one said it to me that you come down here to be a vessel to let God use you in the service of evolution. That's why every single person has planets. Here, you signed up for a lifetime to use your story exactly what's going on in your life right now, with the boyfriend, with the job, with the work, with the no boy from with the whatever your story is, to give you the exercise to see if you could become spiritual in the midst of a hard story. That's why we're here.

Jannecke Øinæs 50:45

So would you say then maybe you meant that now that we all have a specific purpose?

Debra Silverman 50:52

Oh, 100% I hope no one's wondering about that. You didn't get pushed on the bus, and you did not come down here without an assignment, and you signed the deal. You know, I'm doing this whole project right now. I don't know if you know about the tarot cards, but I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with them. So I found out there's 22 major cards, 12 are the 12 signs, and they left 10, which were the 10 planets. So the major Deck, the the big cards, the High Priestess and the devil and the death card are all associated to astrology at the deepest level. So when I found out, I decided to write a little book, so it's what I'm doing right now. And one of the messages of the Tarot deck that I feel like I have them next to my pillow, I'm like, sleeping with them, is that the level of consciousness that occurs here is through difficulty, like we learn the biggest lessons here when things go wrong. Who made that up?

Jannecke Øinæs 51:51

I've been wondering about that. Can we learn just as much through, you know, positive experiences?

Speaker 1 51:57

That's such a good question. You have such good questions. Can we learn just as much from positive I sure hope that the new generation of humans, which I think is coming soon to our neighborhood, the Aquarian Age, will be kinder like to that point. Imagine if you were born which you came with this life self confidence, but not everyone's in Aries Leo, because you came with such a strong ability to hold energy for a room that's who you are with is a double fire sign. But imagine if we all were like you in that everyone's default in their head was, I feel really good about myself. I love who I am. I love my life like instead of having secrets which are, I don't know, I don't think I'm doing really good. I I'm not really happy with my life. I mean, it's nice and it's beautiful. I shouldn't be complaining, but it doesn't feel like the life I was supposed to get, that default of the negative voices is a universal song that in the future. I really believe this, not only will we be able to tell stories and see each other, but we will have a natural operating system that will come with a beginning point that says, I feel safe, I feel loved, like it'll build built in. It will be in your operating system. I made a mistake. It's okay, self, I'm self, love. I'm getting older, and it's okay. I've got wrinkles. It's okay, rather than Oh, because that's the default, if we go gravity takes everybody down. But my fantasy about the next version of the human condition and how we're going to update after 2032 2032 is that we'll suddenly come to the realization that, you know what, let's be like the ETs. Let's have lots of different species without judging any of them, but just being genuinely curious and learning from them.

Jannecke Øinæs 53:45

And I'm very interested in light work and shadow work, because you you say that I have the double fire and confidence, but I also have a shadow side, being depressed, being having low self esteem, really doubting myself, you know, and and then I feel, or have felt lately, like the past years, more and more, that I'm stepping into more of my potential, and I can feel that's really who I am, but my shadow side, I've actually lived mostly in that shadow. So it's interesting that, I guess we all have that potential and that shadow like that the other side of the coin.

Debra Silverman 54:27

That's so helpful. In the book, this is what you're speaking to. You have Saturn in Virgo. I don't know if you knew that. So Saturn describes your life lesson. It's, it's in my book, it's the most me, the most important planet. It's my good friend Saturn. Saturn's not very friendly. He's like an old man or an old woman. That's the high school principal that's got her hand, like, I come with me. It's not a friendly, energetic, but what it does once you get to know the high school principal is you go, Oh, I know exactly in your case, you're a perfectionist, yeah. So you really get upset with yourself when it's not a. To power. It really, really upsets you. Now we're all thinking, you're brilliant, you're beautiful, you're like, really, you don't know, because your Saturn's in Virgo, so your shadow is that you default to a negative voice. And everyone has different ones. Mine is being super blunt and being really like, saying things like, I had to learn over the years like Deborah, that's your life lesson. Calm down, and I've learned it. You have to learn to stop criticizing yourself, which is not an easy one to get over. So that lends itself to depression or self consciousness, because you know how much better you could have done. Am I right? Or am I right?

Jannecke Øinæs 55:37

Oh, very right. That's why I now have a course in self love. I was finally ready to make it, and it's in Norwegian, and I the next step is to create it in English as well. And I'm really passionate about it, because it is what you're speaking about, you know, observing yourself with this lovingly attention and, Oh, it's okay, you know, oh, now this critical voice is coming again, like observing it with compassion.

Debra Silverman 56:03

And this is 100% what your function is. When you said, what's your purpose? That was your purpose, and you're all energized about it, and you're doing it with flame, you know, with flair. My purpose was to tell the truth. And it's you guys, you can imagine as an astrologer, it's hard for me to say to people, yes, the next 10 years are going to be really challenging. I don't want to say that, but that's my life lesson. And I say to everyone, the truth is going to set you free, if you have your observer, if you can notice that. Wow, everyone looks really scared. And I remember that podcast I listened to, and she taught us how to meditate, suggested we meditate. Or here's another solution. You guys, take a deep breath. Let's do it right now and then slowly breathe out. Calm with a breath. You can change your energy, simple, powerful, amazing power. I do it every day. Wherever I am, no one knows I'm doing it. I bring myself back home because it's very it's not just a challenging time to be alive. It's actually going to get more challenge. That's what I got to admit. This is the Saturn and sag. It's going to get more challenging. We're only six months or No, I think we're two months January, two months into this new administration in America that's going to have ripple effects across the world when we begin to see how it will affect us. That's called change. I don't have a judgment. I wish it would have been softer. I wish there were more midwives around, and we could have said, Hey, you guys, don't add more money to your ammunition. Do you think that's what's going to keep you safe? But nobody's listening to us. We're talking to ourselves in a very special room where people are waking up and they become the healing agents. It's called the Secret Service Agency. You know what you guys in your world, be the calm agent. Be the one that can take a deep breath and say to your family and friends. I heard from this astrologer, we're in these really challenging times. Nothing's wrong.

Jannecke Øinæs 58:12

I wanted to ask you, you said somewhere in a video of fire, first glimpse of fire element in August, 2025 is that what you're sort of hinting to there will be more fire.

Debra Silverman 58:33

Yes, on May 25 2025 through August, Saturn enters Aries. You should know this because it's in 2026 it's, it'd be, Listen, you guys, I have a school January and September, only 10 people in a room, and we study your chart. It's not some high falutin theoretical class, just like I'm talking to you now, it's practical. So you study your chart for six weeks. So in it, Saturn's going to enter Aries. I wish that I could say this to you, just like you know how you love saying ETS. And now people say, Do you believe that they really I wish everyone knew that Saturn was this influence, and I could say it, and everyone knew what it was, and we it already reached the point in the zeitgeist where everybody knows Saturn. So Saturn's going to enter Aries on May 25 through August of 2025 it's the entrance of fire for the collective. Aries is a sign of enthusiastic, passionate. This is all you, joyful, innocence. On the low level, they're angry, they're feisty, and they have a temper. So we have an era that we're going to go through in this next window. It will leave in August, and it comes back in January, February of 2026, and it stays for two and a half years. So we're the next era of our lesson to your point is fire and the high road of fire, and you are such a good example, is being really, really honest, like just telling the truth, speaking from your heart, being authentic. I'm scared. I need help. Where's my people? Who's my my community? Do we come together? What's the activism? Can we sing? Can we dance? Can we return to the old, you know, cultural, tribal ways that kept us in love? Cuz we're going to be in a very vulnerable era. And and Aries does not sit down, they stand up and they take responsibility. And so we are going to all the last two and a half years, by the way, was in Pisces, which was la, la, la, la. Nobody was really facing this until now. I always say Saturn, Pisces, the last two years, was business as usual. Let's just pretend it's all okay, Saturn and Aries goes, Excuse me, can we tell the truth

Jannecke Øinæs 1:00:41

that makes sense. You've given us so many helpful tips. Debra, I love that it's so helpful. Because it's one thing to talk about what's going on, and it's another thing to give some tools, you know, and because, yeah, I can feel that people are fearful, and it's so important to remember how powerful we are as human beings, each individual that we have an enormous power, much more than we think. And there are some general questions I ask my guests, and I want to ask this specific one to you today, what is the deepest spiritual insight you received through astrology?

Speaker 1 1:01:24

I think it's it's compassion that everyone has these quirky personalities, everybody, even the people you don't like. And if I can just ask the question, here's my favorite question, when I get really stuck, what was God thinking when she made you, I can turn on the observer and be compassionate even to people that I don't understand. Like, how did this happen? It? It softens my heart.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:01:55

I love that. I'm speaking of self love. What is self love to you Debra,

Speaker 1 1:02:02

to be honest, it took me years and years and years, it didn't happen to my mid 60s that I can actually say I really like Deborah. She used to bug me, like I woke up every day with Deborah, and she was just so neurotic. And as the years have gone by, I've fallen in love with her, yes, and the self love has been the medicine to bring me to peace and meditation. Yeah, and where, once I judged her, I now see her as a real ally, that I have this little part of my soul that is so desiring to help people and so lovable in her quest that I am in love with her. ,

Jannecke Øinæs 1:02:43

Oh but it was so touching. I could just feel her inner child this like really rejoicing. Wow. And the biggest one of all, what is the deeper meaning of life from your perspective,

Debra Silverman 1:02:59

when your brother goes, What can I stop asking all those questions? What is the deeper meaning of life from my perspective? You know, I'd say, to simplify it, it's worship. The only thing I know at the deepest level, it makes me want to cry is when I'm on my knees, when I'm humbled enough to know that I don't know when I'm grateful for the wind, and I go slow enough to remember to say thank you. All of a sudden, life has meaning. I don't know the answer to your question. I just know that prayer and worship and devotion has been the medicine that brought great meaning to this lifetime.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:03:45

So inspiring. Now, Debra, this has been a joy. If people want to work with you, how can they find you? How can they do so it's

Unknown Speaker 1:03:54

just three words, D, E, B, R, A. Debra Silverman, astrology. I'm on Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook. So embarrassing. I have a website. I mean, you know, this age, really, when my grandmother hears me say, I'm on Facebook, you're on what? What, besides Tiktok. I mean, the whole thing anyways, that's where I am. And there are two books that are available. One is the older one called the missing element, which is no astrology, just the elements. We talked a lot about that today. And the second is, I don't believe in astrology, and it's in 17 languages, so it's going to be all over Europe, yeah,

Jannecke Øinæs 1:04:28

hopefully in Norwegian as well.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:32

I think it was, was Norwegian one of the languages. I'll have to find out. We'll find out.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:04:37

Maybe it will be after this episode a lot of Norwegian ones watching.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:43

Thank you. Thank you. And I'm so happy they take my classes, and it's so beautiful to be cross cultured and know we're all in this together.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:04:51

Yeah,we are. Thank you so much for coming to the show today all the way from Hawaii meeting Norway.

Debra Silverman 1:04:58

Thank you.