Beyond Romance: The Sacred Relationship Paradigm! With Sheila and Marcus Gillette

Sheila Gillette 0:00

Marcus called and said, we have a trip planned. And so we went. That was our first date.

Marcus Gillette 0:05

I wouldn't recommend necessarily go camping for five days on your first date. It's certainly a wonderful way to get to know each other. I just said, you know, so what are we gonna do on our second date? And she said, Well, I don't date. And I said, Okay, I guess we'll just have to get married. I have no idea where those words came from, and it was so full hearted and full soul, you know? It was like, oh my god, this is it, you know, this is really it. She's the one. And so anyway, we're 28 years later. Here we

Sheila Gillette 0:32

are. I was driving my car one day, and I kept feeling his energy. And finally I called him from the car, and I said, What do you want? He was just bombarding me, and he just started laughing. And he said, I was just talking about you. And then I said, Oh yeah, by the way, are you wearing that purple shirt that I like so much? And he said, Yeah, as a matter of fact, I am. So those kinds of things we can all do. We're all intuitive.

Marcus Gillette 1:04

We've been at a party where we were sitting at a dinner party, and all of a sudden we were sitting at a dinner table, and we found ourselves out of our bodies, hovering above the dinner table and looking at each other in our out of body state, going, Oh my god. Sheila says to me, one time, do you know you think they know we're gone? We're literally having this out of body experience. You can have all kinds of really cool psychic phenomena together through intention and belief.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:36

Do you want to cultivate a deeper sense of self love? Then I have a self love toolkit for you where I help you boost your self love. Head over to wisdomfromnorth.com/selflovetips, Sheila and Marcus Gillette, a warm welcome to the Wisdom From North show.

Sheila Gillette 1:56

Thank you for inviting us. It's so great to be here.

Marcus Gillette 1:59

We're happy to be here. Jannecke, thanks for inviting us.

Jannecke Øinæs 2:02

I'm excited to speak with both of you today, because I've interviewed you, Sheila before, where you were channeling Theo, which is, well, a collection of beings, archangels, 12 Archangels. And you've been channeling Theo for decades. You are one of those pioneers within the spiritual field, and you've been helping 1000s of people around the globe transform their lives. And you Marcus, you have your own spiritual journey as well, and now you have come out with a book and a new program about the art of relationship and how we can discover the magic of unconditional love. And this is a topic that's dear to my heart these days, because I just got married. So this is, you know, one of those synchronicities that we're doing this episode. Now we're going to dive deep into relationships today, how it's really a new paradigm of relationships. And before we do that, I'd love to hear your divinely, divine meeting back in, I think it was 1997 where you guys met and connected. I don't know who want to start.

Marcus Gillette 3:15

Well, I'm going to ask Sheila to just tell a little bit about her story, about how we how she came to channel Theo and write a book called The Fifth Dimension, channels to a new reality that she wrote with Theo back in 1988 published it with Simon and Schuster in 1988 and I got a hold of that book through a funny, cool series of synchronicities. Someone gave it to me in 1995 and I read that book. But that's where, where I come into the story is getting a copy of that book and reading the fifth dimension before, two years before we met each other.

Sheila Gillette 3:51

Sheila, well, as, as we've spoken before, Jannecke that my story is from 1969 as I had a near death experience and was healed in intensive care, and then came out of the hospital and had miraculous experiences, including trancing spontaneously and becoming the direct voice For the group called Theo the 12 Archangels that you spoke about. And I had been living in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and met a woman. We were acquainted acquaintances. We became very friendly. And she and I left Santa Fe at the same time I moved to Colorado, she I didn't know where she went. We lost touch, and in 1997 February of 1997 I went back to Santa Fe to meet with clients. And one of my clients was a mu. Friend of this woman I'm speaking about, and she's the the woman I was meeting with said, Oh, our friend has moved to to Arizona. If you're coming to Phoenix, anytime she would like to reconnect with you. And this was February in March. I called her, the woman who had moved to the Arizona area. I called her, and I said, I'm coming to give a talk in April. She said, Oh, great. I there's some people I want you to meet. It will be nice to reconnect. Can we have a glass of wine when you get into town? So I said, Yes, that would be lovely. And i i On April 10 of, 1997 I came to Phoenix from Colorado, met with my good friends who I was seeing at their home, and we had agreed to meet at the Phoenician resort, sort it's a beautiful resort in Phoenix, and we and of course, that time of year is gorgeous, so we met there at the resort and went outside on this great, expansive patio deck, however you want to describe it. And there were my friends, the three of us and my my other friend from Santa Fe and her friend, her boyfriend or male friend, and so the five of us were sitting there just chatting and being introduced to each other, and Marcus came into the building. I felt his energy. I didn't see him, but I felt this energy come in. And maybe, maybe you've had that experience, or some of your your people, your listeners, have had an experience where you're looking around, where the is this coming from. And I was turned away talking to the person on my left, and he walked up to the table, I felt this jolt. I looked up and I couldn't breathe. I literally could not breathe. And it wasn't just because he was handsome. It wasn't all of that which was true, but it was why? What is this? Why can't I breathe? This is bigger than the both of us. What's going on here? So I, my friend, had said he'd read the book she'd given him the fifth dimension, and so I knew he knew a lot more about me than I knew about him. So I said, Well, what's your story? And he began to talk, because he is a good communicator, and I could breathe. And that was our first meeting. And I knew this was a really important relationship, because I had known all my life I was to be working with with a male counterpart doing the Theo work in the world. But up until then, and that I had been working in the field for 25 years at that point, I had kind of thought, Oh, well, maybe it's not going to happen. And here he shows up, so you can speak about your experience.

Marcus Gillette 8:38

Well, you know, just for context, too, Jannecke, I was just a fan, right? I'd read the book, and I thought she was great, and I was really, you know, looking forward to meeting her, you know, because I really admired her. I believed entirely in the message that was coming through her. And in Theo, I was, Theo was, you know, when I read that book in 1995 I really just, you know, I really thought I found my teachers. You know, when you read information and you just have a feeling, you you experience information, you don't just read it that was coming through Sheila, and it was, it was profound. And so when we met, I had no expectations, really, other than just how cool it was to meet the author of a book I really enjoyed and and I knew, you know, obviously who she was, my reputation and the impact she'd had globally. And so it was, it was just a lovely night for me, and I had, for me to have expected that anything more than that would happen at that time, felt, would have felt kind of arrogant on my part. I was just happy to be there, you know, just happy to meet her. And then we became friends. We really hit it off. And we had begun talking about this magical place in the bottom of the Grand Canyon here in Arizona called the heva Supai, with the Havasupai Indian Reservation down there, and a friend of mine. And I had become friends with the medicine men down there, and we'd gone down there several times. It's a Shangri La. It's just a beautiful, beautiful space with waterfalls and just just amazing, really, in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. And we were taking another group down there, and we had, we'd invited Sheila and some of her she was gonna bring some of her friends to come, and we didn't know when we're gonna go yet, and when we finally got a date put together to do that. And by the way, in the meantime, I had become a client of Sheila's. I had become so enthusiastic about working personally and intimately with with Sheila and Theo and and so when we went that week. So I'll turn over to you when I called you to tell you that we were going to be going down in in May of that year, about a month later, and you couldn't go at the time.

Sheila Gillette 10:51

No, no. Marcus called and said, We're we have a trip planned and and I was just enthralled and enthusiastic to go down from the top of the rim of the Grand Canyon to this Indian Reservation. It's kind of halfway down where the Indians live, and then they go all the way down the Colorado River. I was just intrigued. And then he calls, and he says, we're going. And the date was May 12. And I said, Oh, I can't go. I was really disappointed. I had already committed to an experience, a Theo group experience in Anchorage, Alaska at that time. And I just I said, you know, I've been committed for months for this event, so I'm sorry I have to go the next time. And he said, Okay. I hung up the phone from our conversation, and it immediately rang. It almost rang in my hand by the time I I hung it up and I picked it up, and it was the people in Alaska wanting to postpone. Imagine, you know, oh, I think angels were working that way. And so I immediately called him back, and I, oh, the events postponed, I can go. And so we went. That was our first date, and we've been together ever since,

Marcus Gillette 12:32

literally, yeah, I'll just, I'll share. I know we have tried to condense this for time's sake, but we just one experience we had when we were down there. So we went. I wouldn't recommend necessarily, Annika that that you go camping for for five days on your first date. I mean, it's certainly a wonderful way to get to know each other. But we ended up having an experience out so we had several multi dimensional experiences, one of which was just briefly really profound. We were Sheila and I were sitting outside a sweat lodge waiting for our turn to go into the sweat lodge. And we were there was two young Native children playing right in front of us, sitting on a bank, on a hill on the river. And in a moment, we both had a simultaneous collapse of time and space, and we both went into an experience of several 100 years ago, and we and everything changed. The landscape changed. Our clothing, changed the clothing of the children playing in front of us. So we were in another time simultaneously. Now it's cool when it happens to yourself or for yourself, by yourself, but it's really cool when it happens simultaneously with someone that you are with in that moment, and we both began to share with each other. Are you seeing what I'm seeing? And we were just comparing notes of what we were seeing and experiencing, and they were identical. So we had a simultaneous collapse of time and space. And that was just one of many experiences. But just to fast forward, we come out of that experience. It was just a beautiful, beautiful experience. And we came out, and we came to my house. I invited a bunch of friends over to meet Sheila and Theo, and then that night, we were sitting outside, and I said to her, after everybody had left, and it was a beautiful evening, and we're sitting outside of my patio, and I just said, you know, so what are we going to do on our second date? And she said, Well, I don't date. And I said, Okay, I guess we'll just have to get married. I have no idea where those words came from, I had no idea, no intentions jannecke of, of asking her to marry me that night, but I did, and it was so full hearted and full soul, you know, it was like, Oh, my God, this is it, you know, this is really it that she's the one. And so anyway, we're 28, years later. Here we are. And then just, you know, to fast forward to about six years ago, we asked Theo, what's the most important thing we can share of your teachings? It's going to have the greatest impact on the world? And they said, relationships, full stop relationships, one word answer. And that's why we put this program together. That's why we've been working over the last few years on creating something that. Have the greatest impact for people, starting with the love of self, and that's where we move into. The first few chapters of the book are all about the divine, sacred beings that we really are, and and how and how. There's a quite a how to process the field gives us called Soul integration that we share in the beginning of the book and beginning of the the video program that we're talking about here,

Sheila Gillette 15:25

Jannecke, you know, this is a cliffhanger. They chose us. You know, the in the in the first chapter of this book, we give the whole story of how we came together and all the multi dimensional experiences that we had at the meeting of coming together, and it's really fun, if you know, my intention when this all happened was to write a book called The greatest love story I ever lived. So this is just, you know, not a full book about that, but certainly we talk about it, and it's not to impress about that, but to impress upon others that it's possible, that these experiences are possible, if you allow them. So that's part of it, that the impact we want people to know they too, can have great relationships, all relationships

Jannecke Øinæs 16:30

so important. And many of us are speaking about the shift of consciousness. And it's also important to speak about well, how are we part of this evolution in a positive way? Like, what can we do? What are the concrete steps and relationships? Is something we all relate to that I think many think are hard. So I think it's so important that you concretely are giving advice on this, especially in this new energy that is coming now, and you're speaking about the new paradigm of relationships, and I'm really interested in hearing and learning what is the new paradigm of relationships. So maybe Sheila, do you want to start

Sheila Gillette 17:16

well, as we know, the paradigm we've lived in for 1000s of years, patterns that have been passed along generationally. We've acted out in that type of relationship, which is relationship out of need, out of one person making the other person whole, emotionally. But we have different responsibilities, you know, the males and females. But now life has changed that and the new paradigm of relationship is preferential, that we prefer to be with another rather than needing to be for for life, sustaining things women can provide for themselves. Well, they can they can buy homes. They can have cars. They can have a good job. They can excel if they so choose to hire echelons of positions. And as men have had that opportunity throughout time, women have matched that now. So there's not that need that some you need to take care of me, and men have always relied on the women to take care of them emotionally. And so there's now this blending where the masculine feminine inside of each and every one of us can emerge and we can be together in a different way that we choose. And I like to say every morning, we we do our gratitude practice each both Marcus and I independently, and one of the things that I do is commit to my marriage each morning in this sense of how much gratitude that I have for it and I have for him, and the type of relationship that we have had in the sense of growth of being together and really being an example of this new paradigm of choosing to be together rather than needing to be together, and the How to as we explain this first, it's from the inside out, we become the relationship to ourselves that we want in our life with another.

Marcus Gillette 19:54

Once we, once we, once we fall in love with ourselves, really. I mean, once we really under. Understand how magnificent we really are, and we and we recognize, through Theo's teachings on Soul integration, Janneke, that we're not our past experiences. You know, we're not the traumas that we've experienced in this lifetime. We're previous incarnations, and that we have the ability to identify and observe past experiences where untrue beliefs about ourselves were adopted or created, and any belief that we have that is not totally unconditionally loving about ourself, it's just not true, right? We are a vibration state of being of unconditional love. That is what our soul is. That's what we're all awakening to now and remembering who we really are, and when we do that, and we go into some detail on how to do that. In the art of relationship, everything changes. Our relationship to ourselves changes, and to Sheila's point, everything else changes. Our relationships romantically change. We're able to establish and maintain healthy boundaries, which is a big, big issue for a lot of people in relationships we don't, we're not in relationships in which you fill up the woundedness in me, and I'll fill up the woundedness in you, you know, as she was talking about the old paradigm. And ultimately, then as we really strengthen this, this core relationship, and also become very aware of what our core values are in the matching up of core values, not just in romantic relationships, but in all of our friendships, all of our relationships, externally, our work relationships, people we hang out with everything, all the relationships that we have, family, of course, right? I mean, you know, included, once we recognize the magnetic beans that we are. We can attract to ourselves precisely that vibration that we're, that we are ourselves by the frequency that we ourselves are vibrating at. And boy, those relationships are awesome. You know, they feel so good. They're so soul connected. We have a chapter in the program called, haven't we met somewhere before? And I know you experienced this in your community as well. What happens in our community is people come into our community and they go into a breakout group or whatever, or they go or they join a program and and they all of a sudden, they're meeting people like, Whoa, where have you been? I feel like we've known each other all of this lifetime. And one of the things we talk about in the program that Theo teaches us about is soul contracts. You know, the fact that we have soul family and that we reincarnate together as soul family to support each other's growth in this lifetime. So that's kind of just a little bit of an overview of what we perceive and what Theo teaches as the new paradigm. And it's really fun. It feels really, really great. You know, it's, it's a different, different way of being in relationship. Yeah.

Jannecke Øinæs 22:41

I mean, let's go there about the soul contracts and soul mates and twin souls. A lot of people are curious about that, and I'd love to hear, I guess it's Theo's perspective, because the or not your perspective, where the course is derived from that the whole course is channeled, right? Is that correct?

Marcus Gillette 23:03

Yes, it is, and yes. And there is a lot of commentary and personal experiences throughout the program, throughout the program, that Sheila and I share from our own personal perspective. And there's also the experience of many other people as well who are in the program on video talking with Theo about the topic of the chapter, in their own way, their own personal life experiences are being talked with Theo about, and then they also, after that session, they share their own personal experience of how that unfolded for them in their lives. So it's not theoretical. It's very personal and very experiential as well.

Jannecke Øinæs 23:44

Because I think a lot of people are wondering about, you know, my soulmate, is she or he out there? And are we meant to meet? And if we're meant to meet, then I can just, you know, trust that the person will come, or do I have to manifest it? Do I have to get ready for it, to attract it? And, I mean, there's tons of questions. Here is a successful relation, something that lasts your whole life, because the Cinderella story and the Disney story that a lot of us have been influenced by, is that Forever After, right? So what are your perspectives on this when it comes to soul contracts, or Theo's perspective?

Sheila Gillette 24:27

Well, the perspective of soulmate personally is, they say soul mates are soul family. We're on the same vibrational frequency. It's not, they say it. Do not romanticize it, because it's it can be romantic, but it can be your best friend, it could be your sister or brother or that you're aligned with, and you came here together. To support each other's growth. And some of our most challenging relationships can be those soul mates or sacred friends, because we learn most and more deeply through Challenge. Challenge is the curriculum of our life. It gives us the opportunity for the growth that we're here to do. And they speak of it as this, can a soulmate be your your primary partner? Yes, of course, but it it's a broader perception than that. And I know you were talking about the twin that people get really immersed in the twin flame. It's a vibrational match the male and female. And yes, that happens as well, not as frequently as we notice soulmates to Marcus. Point A lot of people meeting. Oh, gosh, I've known you forever. It's that kind of match. So is that person out there? Yes, I can give you an example with Marcus and I, we, we could not or I, in my part, I can speak for me. I'm not going to speak for him, but I could not have met him before, the moment we met. Would I have liked to for many more years before that? Sure, of course, because of the type of relationship it is. I went through some relationships that were very challenging at different times, as we all have, but that grew me to understand when we met, it was so different and how we interact in our relationship is so different because we did some inner work around the relationship, relationship to the self. I've been a student of Theo's work and their soul integration process for over five decades. Myself. I'm a student, so I was doing that work Marcus, in his own way, was as well. So it allowed us to come together at a different frequency than had we met 20 years before or even five years before. So I realized I wouldn't have been ready for that relationship, and I'm going to say neither would he, but he can say that

Marcus Gillette 27:50

that's true, that would definitely be a true statement. And it's interesting Jannecke, everybody wants the one. Everybody wants to be in love. Everybody wants that idealized relationship, and it is out there, as Sheila said. And maybe it's not, maybe it's more than one too, you know, I mean, that's we're living long lives too. The teaching that Theo gives us on the on the topic of attracting a mate, our soul mate, to us romantically, is to write down all the things that we would like it that person to be. What are our what are our core values? What are the non negotiables? Where? Where do we set boundaries in relationships? What is it that we would love to have in a partner? And then, as you go through that list, and you can write and write and write everything that you'd love Go, go through it and find out an honest reflection of self, am I all those things am I every single thing I just wrote down? And when you do that, it'll identify for you the areas that you need to potentially be working on, and as you're in the process of manifesting the love of your life, right? And so in the same really, in terms of relationships that we manifest outside of our romantic relationships, it's the same thing. Are we matched core values wise. We tell people who are, who are looking for, you know, for the perfect employment or the perfect opportunity professionally, you know, to make sure that not only are they interviewing you, you're interviewing them, to make sure that they align with your core values, right? So it's, it's really in alignment in a magnet and magnetic process. And I think that this whole notion of writing everything down and then really getting real with yourself as to Am I all that that I seek in another is a really powerful exercise for people.

Jannecke Øinæs 29:37

I want to circle back to the multi dimensional nature of love, because that is module one. And not to get too specific about the course, but I just thought it was interesting that that is important, and I'm curious what it means understanding love's multi dimensional nature. What is that? And why is it important..

Marcus Gillette 30:03

Well, let's talk Sheila about the about what we did after we met each other for Yes, yes as an example of to Yanis question. So when we met each other, Sheila was living in Colorado, I was in Arizona, and we would get going to meditation every day. We'd meditate together every day, and we'd meditate oftentimes for 45 to 60 minutes at a time, it became a date. We had we had a date. We had a time. Every day we'd go into meditation, and what we would do is was intentionally telepathically communicate with each other when we were in those altered states of consciousness, to the point where we would call each other back and we would compare notes of the messages that we had been transmitting to each other, and it was uncanny how accurate they were. You know, that I was projecting a particular message or thought or image, and Sheila would pick it up, and then she would, you know, feed it back to me when we get on the phone later, and it was just confirmation after confirmation after confirmation. So that's one aspect of a multi dimensionality in a relationship. And to Sheila's point earlier, we want to inspire everyone to know the possibilities within relationships. We can all do this. It's our, it's our, it's our nature to we are right as spiritual beings, we're so much more, as you know, than these physical bodies. So that's one example. The many of these experiences happen kind of instantaneously, or the simultaneous experiences that we've had. We've been at a party where we were sitting at a dinner party, and all of a sudden we were sitting at a dinner table, and we found ourselves out of our bodies, hovering above the dinner table and looking at each other in our out of body state, going, Oh my god. Do you think they know where Sheila says to me one time, do you know you think they know we're gone? We were literally having this out of body experience, looking at the people that were sitting at the table together as we were hovering above the group and stuff like that. You know that just so much fun. Oh my gosh. It's just a different kind of way of being in relationship with each other. And so there's an intentionality to it. You can do remote viewing together, which you're familiar with, of course, that you can have all kinds of really cool psychic phenomena together through intention and belief. You know, really believing that you can do this, intending to do so, and then, and then, actually, you know, doing it, you know, actually trying it. So it's fun to get confirmation after confirmation that, oh my gosh, we can do this. We're more than our physical bodies, you know.

Jannecke Øinæs 32:32

Do you want to add something Sheila, ?

Sheila Gillette 32:36

I'm just thinking about, you know, the the allowance in that. And you may have had some similar experiences with your husband, where you are connected telepathically, or you just feel each other's energy when they're not there, or they're they're gone from home. I know that I realized in my experience that I could connect Heart to Heart to my children. This is before cell phones, to see if they were okay or where they were like and so the same thing I had experienced with Marcus. We were so connected in that multi dimensional field. I was driving my car one day, and I kept feeling his energy. And finally I called him from the car, and he answered. He was in a car in in Washington state, in Seattle, I was in Colorado, and I said, What do you want? He was just bombarding me, and he just started laughing, and he said, I was just talking about you. He had someone else with him in his his car, and he was and and he said I was just talking about you, and I felt that energy. And then I said, Oh yeah, by the way, are you wearing that purple shirt that I like so much. And he said, Yeah, as a matter of fact, I am so those kinds of things we can all do. We're all intuitive. Intuitive. It's just believing in ourselves, and it's so fun in our primary relationships, as we come together to experiment with it too. It's just to let it in, to let it evolve, because having those experiences bond you even more.

Jannecke Øinæs 34:30

That's true, and you speak about the sacred self, that that's important to connect with the sacred self. What is the sacred self. Marcus?

Marcus Gillette 34:43

Do you want to sacred? Yeah, the sacred self. Sacred self is who we are. It's who you are. It's a process of remembrance and awakening and knowing ourselves with when you ask Theo, well, who are we really? The answer is, you are a vibrational state of being. Being of unconditional love. You're not. It's not a feeling or a thought, you know, it's not an emotion. It's an actual state of being. It's a vibrational frequency of unconditional love. And that's who we are, that's the sacred self, that's that's who we are. And so the Yannick as you know, and what you shared earlier, you know, people are waking up now, you know, to that note, to the note, to the knowledge and the personal experience, which is really what it's all about, of knowing themselves as more than their physical bodies. And it's such a an empowering way of being. And then, as in, it guides. It's like a North a guiding star in our life, in our life, you know that, that the North, knowing that the North? Yeah, North Star, what am I? What am I trying to say? Yes, the North Star, the Evening Star. You know it's that. It's that Guiding Light in our life to know this, because then it informs everything that we that we believe, everything we think, everything we say and do and our actions are all aligned with compassion and non judgment and love as opposed to its opposite. And so that's the new paradigm that we're moving into now in this fifth dimension. And for those that don't believe that, or don't adopt that, or know that to be true, or have many personal experiences of it because their beliefs don't allow them to do so. Life's just going to be a little bit harder for them. It's just not going to be as much fun, and they're not going to feel as comfortable in their skin, and they're going to be more reactive to the external world than than being responsive and calm and peaceful, which is a state of being that we're cultivating with Theo's teachings on the inner that makes sense.

Jannecke Øinæs 36:45

So how do we connect with the sacred self?

Sheila Gillette 36:51

Through meditation, it's actually our our soul is a solid state of vibrational frequency that doesn't change when we talk about increasing our vibration, what we're doing is increasing that physically in our third dimensional bodies, because our soul has the same vibrational frequency eternally. So as we're awakening, we're becoming more aware of that, and there's ways that we connect with that. As we're changing our belief systems, we're changing our minds. We're laying new neural pathways in our brains out of the default system of fight, flight, fear, the what if something horrible is going to happen to what if something wonderful will happen? And Theo teaches us how to be aware that our soul is bigger than our body. There's exercises that they do with us to feel our soul filling a room with love. And it's a visceral feeling when you begin to experience that you can stretch your arms out and just imagine touching the walls on either side of your fingertips and just breathe into it. I mean, there's different ways you can prove to yourself that you're more than this physical body. Theo talks about us being magnificent spiritual beings, having a human experience, not the other way around. And that as we come into this new consciousness, there is a realization of that, not from narcissism or arrogance or self centeredness, all those personality disorders, but from the truth and the solid state of that unconditional love of self and others.

Jannecke Øinæs 38:50

Yeah, and since you mentioned that, I want to ask about that, because many experience being in a relationship that is extremely turbulent, meeting someone with a personality disorder, maybe doing it multiple times. And I'm a bit curious, from a spiritual perspective, about people who have these personality disorders, the purpose of that, and if that is something they've chosen for this lifetime, sort of to, I'm going to play this role against you. You're going to learn about self love, or is it more that this soul has, who has this disorder has, maybe karma that they're dealing with, and they have to learn to really love themselves like they're on their own journey learning about really loving themselves, and that's maybe why they're behaving like they're behaving because they're not really loving themselves deeply.

Sheila Gillette 39:54

It's true for all of us. It's not just those that that are exhibiting. Uh, personality disorders, or whatever we've all chosen to incarnate in, whatever we've chosen in and to whomever were parents or families or relationships. Those what you're talking about is repetitive choosing patterns that we get in a relationship, realize what it is, but we're all looking for love, and the greatest fear we have as humans, as Theo would say, is abandonment and shame. And so coming in, there are certain situations and circumstances that influence how we see ourselves, we where we adopt a belief about ourselves or create one that we're not worthy or lovable, and in That belief, there are certain periods of time and ages where the energy or the circumstances the same vibration when we first created that belief that reaffirms it. Oh, yes, that's right. That must be true. And so that's that repetitive pattern. How you change it is going to where did it begin? Where did the belief begin, of not being worthy of unconditional love or money or whatever the belief is, and changing it, not judging it, the events, the situations and circumstances, no matter how they express themselves, and some can be pretty dramatic, does not need to define us in a victimized role. We can change that by belief, by how we've grown and loving that part of ourselves forward the O says, coming home into the seat of the soul, the heart. And so what we see it from a different point of view. We change our perception and look for the gifts and blessings of those events that have created the strength in us that have made us who we are today, but we can also love that part of self unconditionally and appreciate them for the strength they had to survive that moment and invite them to come forward to the present time, because it's just being stuck in that belief system that creates that pattern.

Marcus Gillette 42:47

I would add one more thing to that, too, Janneke, to your original question about personality disorders and souls, choosing those human those human bodies with that chemistry and with those pathologies even. Why would they do that? Right? Why would a soul want to come and live that kind of life? Well, the fact is that that soul very, very purposefully and perfectly chose that body for the learning of emotions and not just for the human the soul incarnates, you know, over and over and over again, obviously, for the purpose of learning in human form, here on Earth, for the purpose of learning emotions. Theo says people's purpose is simply to be in human form learning emotions, what people perceive as wanting to find their purpose. Theo talks about, it's more about wanting to find your passion, right? And that's really what we seek to do is really get up in the morning, go, Ah, so excited for today. You know what we get to do today? And the learning is not just for the soul who, let's just talk about a narcissistic personality disorder, right? Or sociopathic personality disorder. There's so much learning for all the people that are in that person's field in this lifetime. So it's so much more than just the learning for one, it's learning for all that come in contact with them. There is some intentionality, evidently, to the souls incarnating with those beings that are going to have that human first, those are going to have those personality disorders while in human form. And we all learn that are in that field, in that world, with those people. You know, it's mysterious too, in that, you know, we can't know exactly how that all works, but it does give some clarity in terms of knowing it is intentional. There's no mistakes with any of this.

Jannecke Øinæs 44:37

Yeah, I guess there's no mistakes in the universe, perhaps. No coincidences. Okay, I have so many questions. Yeah, okay, I'll go there practical tools on communication skills in a relationship, in the new paradigm, or relationships. Can you. Give us some advice.

Sheila Gillette 45:06

I'm going to speak to when Marcus and I started living together, we really didn't know each other that well. It was, we were talking on the phone. We were, this is back in the faxing days, you know, fax machines, and we were sending each other messages. We were doing our multi dimensional experiences as well. But as you know, when you live with somebody, you know, I was had been living alone. I was single. He was single, and raising a nine year old daughter. My children were grown, and we, you know, we just get certain things you know, that irritate you in life if you live with another, like a towel on the floor. I mean, I'm talking about just the little irritant things that we know

Marcus Gillette 46:01

she's not talking about me. She's not talking about me.

Sheila Gillette 46:05

But you know what I'm talking about. We have it with our children. Sometimes they don't pick up their socks, you know, whatever. Those things that just like, you know, why don't they do this? Those are the things that undermine relationship. It's not the big things. The big things you get through, you come together, you you negotiate a solution to any big thing. It's the little things that are irritants. So when Marcus and I got together, I realized what unconditional love was. He was more important than the towel on the floor, or the dish in the sink rather than the dishwasher, or what, you know, and I'm just talking about things that we all relate to. I loved him so unconditionally that those things didn't matter. They didn't matter. They didn't irritate me, as I would react to before. And you know, one day, I realized it's I'm different. I'm different I've been doing the integration work. I realized I was not reacting. I was responding to what was important. I made the person important, not the thing. And to me, it spoke unconditional love. Now we do that with our children. For the most part. We do get kind of we have to teach them and all that sort of thing, but our our pets, so we get glimpses of unconditional love those ways, but in primary relationships, we can fall into those places of the old paradigm of you're not, you're not Taking care of me right this way, but the greatest thing we have learned together is communication, not just, you know, thinking a thought, but speaking it and speaking if something happens about our feelings. And a primary thing is, is when we discuss something and where we there's a decision to be made. We made an agreement, if it was if something was more important to the other person than it was to ourselves, that's the that's the decision we'd make not to be right, but to see that, you know, most of the things we get at odds with others is that we want to be in charge and we want to be right, and we decided we're not going to do that. We're going to talk about the the things before they get big and in in the past, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't communicate. I think it, but then it wouldn't be discussed. And, you know, it just we changed all that communication is so important, and it can be done kindly. And if it's not done kindly, we learn how to say, you know, that hurts my feelings when you say it like that. And then we'll say, Can we do it over if we get in one of those bad mood days? Oh, that didn't come out right? Wait a minute, rewind. Let's say this over so it's just being mindful and paying attention. And it's true in all of our relationship, not just just primary, but with every relationship that we have, was just listening to ourselves and being mindful of where we're at.

Marcus Gillette 50:00

Yeah, I would add, I would add two things to that. One is active listening. You know, really listening. You know, we hear people, but sometimes we're really not listening, right? And so our ears are picking it up. They're hearing the sounds, but they're, you know, we're already formulating our response, instead of being present with with what's being said. So it's it's active and really acute listening number one, and then number two is the in communication with each other. We realize that telling, telling someone that you make me feel some way is to abdicate your abdicate your power. Instead of you make me feel, you know, looking in their eyes, maybe, maybe holding hands. You know, I'm really connecting somatically, not even just with with our words and saying, you know, here's how I feel. You can make me feel this way. This is just me taking responsibility for my own feelings instead of blaming so, you know, effective communication has nothing to do with blaming, ever, ever, ever, because it's our it's our way of responding or reacting in a situation that's all us and so not not blaming them for making us feel a certain way. It goes a long way towards effective communication as well. But the listening really being present and not formulating that next response. You know well, before you know the person's done talking and in chills in my relationship, we've become very adept at we all have this amazing capacity for immediate self correcting, and we can improvise in the moment. Wait a minute that just we can feel as the words are coming out. We can feel the feeling of the lack of love in those words, you know, and to such an extent where we can then have a very immediate response of to ourselves, of, okay, wait a minute, what would I do or say differently if I had to do that all over again? And the good news is, I do have the opportunity to do it all over again, because I just caught myself right? And so it's just, it's just, it's really self awareness, isn't it? You know, it's just really being aware of the intention behind our words. That's another good way of looking, of making sure that you look at, oftentimes, what someone's intending is not how it's landing with you, right? So it's just having those conversations, basically, you know, to get clarity would be, I think, kind of the one of the keys to this.

Jannecke Øinæs 52:24

I remember I saw a film with Debbie Ford. She sadly passed away a few years ago. I think it was from cancer. And she spoke a lot about shadow work. And I remember she said, when you point towards another, you have three fingers towards yourself, and I never forget that when you blame others, it's just pointing towards yourself. So you have to take responsibility for what's going on with inside of you. And what you said just reminded me of that, how everything is reflection of ourselves. And taking responsibility for our own emotions, instead of you are making me feel like this.

Marcus Gillette 53:03

It's interesting. And in the same holds true for judgment. You know, as you judge another, just go look in the mirror and say, what is it in myself that I'm judging as I'm judging another? And to know that you're in judgment is to know is to is to feel an emotional reactivity in that judgment. So Theo says, if you're if you're ever wondering if you're just judging or observing someone, you know the reality is, is that if you're judging someone, there's an observation, there's an emotional reaction going on, whereas observation is simply an observation. There is no emotion attached to the isn't that interesting? We like the word the words, isn't that interesting. Okay, that's that's that's an interesting way of being, but not having any emotional attachment, if you will, or emotional reactivity to it, which you know, then you're in a state of judgment. And on the other side of judgment is simply compassion, you know, and acceptance, so.

Jannecke Øinæs 53:55

And then I get curious, can we love a partner unconditionally, though, as human beings, because especially in a romantic relationship, there is a risk that one can fall in love with another person all of a sudden, and you could be rejected and left. And being a human, most humans have not come that far, that they're just okay, like, Oh, but I want the best for you, because they feel the hurt themselves. I do remember Byron Katie spoke about this, that she seemed to be on a level where she was like in acceptance of everything, whether her partner left or not, it was okay. That's my interpretation of what she said, but most of us, is it possible to love each other unconditionally in a partnership?

Sheila Gillette 54:56

I'm going to say yes, and. You know, we're all human, and we just notice what we're noticing about our reactivity to someone else and to what Marcus said, is intention behind every action or word, there's some intention is whatever someone is experiencing in a relationship, and what I heard in in your ask, Was betrayal. When somebody go that another person leaves the relationship. Was that person intentionally wanting to harm or were they just doing their life unconsciously and not thinking about the impact that the action would take and what what I know in most of those circumstances, there's not good communication or a desire for it by one of one of the partners, and that's very hurtful, because we all want to be seen and heard. We have in the program. We're talking about at a module or a chapter on betrayal and how how to resolve, how to move through those experiences and how to love the self through it. We have another part that's honorary ception. Honorary, honorary separation. Honorable, honorable, honorable. Thank you. That just wasn't coming out right honorable separation. You know how we can end relationships honorably by communicating and and you know that that's where your question about unconditional love can come in because when there's a completion, let's say, of your soul contract. And that could be why the other person, they're they're complete. You may not be yet, but they feel complete. You know, that's that's working with the relationship itself on from your point of view and with your own self. But it's, it's just so important the communication is the key to all of this, and speaking the truth. Theo says vulnerability is a superpower. And most of us think, oh my gosh, I'm going to be hurt more if I speak my truth, if I'm vulnerable. But if we can do that in our relationships, and I know some times we can't, depending on the dynamic and and the people, but I think for the most part, and we've witnessed it, not only in our own experience, but with others. That communication, when someone is vulnerable and speaks their truth, you can feel it. You can feel that that's true, and respond. And the response is different. And Theo often says, Remember, you love this person. Remember the love. And what would love do? So it's it's interesting. It's when you're feeling hurt and betrayed to want to lash out and understand and blame and do all those things of the old ways of being, and we're just introducing a new way of being interactive in our personal relationships. Marcus, did you have anything to add about

Marcus Gillette 58:59

Well, I would, yeah, I would just add to that, Sheila, that you know, how we end one relationship has everything to do with how we begin another, right? So the energy carries forward, if it's an energy of blame and anger, where we haven't asked ourselves, what's in this for me? What's my part? How do I clean out my side of the street, within all this emotionally, then that lack of integration will will carry forward, and whatever that pattern is will carry forward into the next relationship. So there's no, there's no learning or growth that takes place when we adopt that, that attitude. But the cool thing is that even in the healing from betrayal, so we in the sixth module, it's it's honorable separation. How to honorably consciously separate. And that could be not just a romantic relationship, so it could be in any relationship, holding boundaries. You know, your question about unconditional love, the dance there is that we also in loving ourselves unconditionally. Absolutely have to establish and maintain healthy personal boundaries as well, right? So there, you could say that there's some conditions involved in that, right? But the healing from betrayal, which is the seventh module, Janneke has one of the and there's beautiful video in there of a woman having really a deep experience of betrayal that Theo talks about, and just beautiful with her in a beautiful way. And ultimately, to Sheila's point, it's it's not rarely does someone intend to to betray another, and almost always, what's happening is they're betraying themselves. So you can just kind of flip it, like we've been talking about with other other aspects of relationships. It's almost always a betrayal of the self, and not the person who feels the betrayal. But it's certainly an opportunity for growth, and it's certainly an opportunity for heightened awareness as to, you know what's going on in the relationship too? Because obviously, in most cases, that would be maybe a non negotiable boundary that we in, a core value, that we would establish that isn't in alignment. So you make your decision based upon that.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:01:16

Well, this is very inspirational, and I guess it is a course, no matter if you are in a relationship, we're not in a relationship. And for all kinds of relationships, perhaps, like it would be good for any, anyone to do this program.

Marcus Gillette 1:01:30

100 100% Yeah, absolutely, as we whether you're in a a beautiful relationship, romantically or not, maybe you're in one that is good but not great. Maybe it's not maybe it's just okay, not even good. If you want to uplevel it, you want to honorably separate. You want to find a relationship. Many people come into the course are single, but many are married, and many actually have, have had there's a there's a beautiful video on the page that your viewers are going to get a chance to look at with a woman sharing how she and her husband, she lives in Canada, she and her she and her husband did the program together, and they took their relationship, and as she describes it so beautifully, it's just about three minutes long, into a whole different realm of awareness and communication and connection. But it doesn't matter what kind of romantic relationship you're in, because we're going to talk about the sacred self, as you talked about loving the self and how that changes everything in your life. We're going to talk about honorable separation. We're talking about have we known each other before? We're going to talk about healing from betrayal and communication and passion and purpose in life. And then the last chapter, which is something a chapter, a module that has gotten a lot of really positive feedback, is called the end of life. This is the 12th module, not the end of life, but the end of life. And Theo talks about the human experience being a birth to birth process, not birth to death. We are in when we leave this physical body for the last time. And in this incarnation, we're birthing into our multi dimensionality. We're birthing into our true selves, into that vibration of vibrational, state of unconditional love. And in that module, we also talk about how to remain in contact with our deceased loved ones. Because, as you know, relationships are forever. So there's a lot of juicy stuff in there, regardless of whatever the status may be of your of your primary romantic relationship,

Jannecke Øinæs 1:03:28

sounds amazing. And over to the last questions that I ask all my guests. And I can start with you, Sheila, I've asked you before, and maybe I get a slightly different answer. Who knows what is self love to you,

Sheila Gillette 1:03:46

honoring who I am as to Marcus's point of realizing that I can speak up and communicate and hold boundaries of letting people know when, when something is acceptable and unacceptable, that's loving myself and it's it doesn't have to be done in anger or or harshly. It's just telling the truth of what's acceptable to me and what is not, and that's loving myself enough to be able to teach people how to treat me differently, because Theo tells us that we teach people to treat us the way they do. So as I've been that student of how to love myself, I'm teaching people differently how to treat me, rather than the old ways that were uncomfortable and and that's loving the self enough to be able to be vulnerable and communicate. Mm.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:05:00

Yeah, and what about you? Marcus, what is self love to you?

Marcus Gillette 1:05:03

I'm trying to think what to add to that. Jannecke, the I think one example would be, well, showing up authentically, right? Just showing up in your authentic self, and allowing yourself to feel so comfortable in your skin that you can be as vulnerable, vulnerability like we were talking about earlier, is contagious. And so being that real, authentic, empowered, being showing up in any situation or relationship in life. And one example I'll give you that I believe define Self Love is the how we respond or to what we would feel typically, as something we would be obligated to, or a person we might be obligated to in life. A lot of times it has to do with family. And what I mean by that is that, you know, when we feel an obligation, there's, there's one of two ways that we're going to go with that obligation. One is that we, we're not wholehearted. We don't want to do it, but we go ahead and say yes anyway, right? For acceptance sake, we don't want to hurt someone's feelings. It's what's been expected of me. But the other way is to kindly say no thank you. You know, just simply no thank you. And knows a sentence according to Theo, right? There's no explanation yet, no thanks. You know that's it's just not going to work for me right now, or whatever. However you describe it, kindly when Theo talks about obligation. They talk about asking yourself, Am I doing this to be loved, or am I doing it out of love? And so I think that showing up what true Self Love is, is doing things always out of love, not to be loved, not for the acceptance of others, not because it's expected of us, but because we're full hearted. So it really the answer that question for me, is to be full hearted in everything we do, and that's being true to ourself, and that's loving ourself, and that's self love.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:06:53

And then the last one, and the biggest one of all, what is the deeper meaning of life from your perspective? Sheila,

Sheila Gillette 1:07:05

wow, the deeper meaning of life is really acknowledging that solid state of unconditional love in yourself that then as you live your life, the impact you have with others radiates out as love itself. So that's my journey, and in this life, and I'm sure others that I know I was here to be significant, and I believe we all know that in ourselves or we wouldn't have chosen an incarnation, and so whatever significance and impact that is to be yours is personal, but It's important, because we're all collaborative human beings here purposefully to change consciousness and to be a part of this tremendous change of consciousness. Whatever our role is, however it expresses in and through us. And Theo says, if you can see yourselves as they see us, there would be no discontent. There would only be love and peace on our planet.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:08:29

Powerful.

Marcus Gillette 1:08:31

Yeah, yeah. I don't not much to add to that. I think that the deep root I asked Theo one time, Janneke, by the way, I have to say something, your work is so aligned with ours as well. When we first met each other, I watched a lot of your videos. I was just blown away by how aligned we all are on this topic. I love this last question. I think to Sheila's point, I think it's, it's it's embracing the opportunity in this lifetime for the learning of emotions, ultimately. And why does that matter? Right? Well, in the learning of emotions, we're going to live joyous, peaceful lives, we can become enlightened. You know, Soul integration is a path to enlightenment, which is a lightness of heart, a lightness of being, as Theo describes it. It's not some, you know, far out there, unattainable goal at all, but it's real that we can have, that we can feel that lightness, that vibration of love of light within our physical structure, our physical being. So for me, it's saying yes to that is the deeper meaning, saying yes to the learning of emotion, saying yes and allowing the and having no resistance, having no resistance, right to the opportunities for growth that are, that are present in this lifetime. And I think that the last thing I'll say about it is just the beautiful opportunity this, in this deeper meaning of remembering who we are, and in this fifth dimensional frequency. See that we're living in right now, that Sheila and Theo have been talking about since 1988 and even beyond that, in her first book, the fifth dimension, channels to a new reality. This new reality that they were talking about so many years ago is happening right now. They forecast this time, that we're living in right now and the opportunities for us to know ourselves beyond anything we've ever experienced in any other incarnation, in this and this human form is magnificent right now, and saying yes to that, I think, is really the deeper meaning to everything.

Jannecke Øinæs 1:10:35

Thank you so much. You guys have inspired me so much. And I feel like just getting married, you're this great role model couple for this new paradigm of relationships. And I'm just two weeks into my marriage, and it's exciting, you know, this new path I'm walking, and here you are. Just really have that that that passion and that deep connection, and you seem so in love, and it's just so inspiring to see after all these years. So thank you so much. I mean, you're really walking the talk, and I can really recommend this program, the art of relationships, and I'll drop a link below, and for everybody who wants to enroll, you're also supporting wisdom from North by doing so full transparency, I can highly recommend checking it out. So thank you so much Sheila and Marcus and thank you for your powerful and beautiful work for humanity.

Sheila Gillette 1:11:39

Thank you for inviting us, and it's been a special treat to be with you again. Great.